How do you beat El Fuerte?

el-fuerte

#1

CONTENT IS OUTDATED — WILL UPDATE AT SOME POINT – CHECK BACK LATER!

Matchups against Fuerte.
(Aka How to beat El Fuerte from the other character’s point of view)

*  Abel

Abel

Spoiler

If a Fuerte charges focus and releases it you can usually just command throw him out of it.

Rolls are not your friends, we can Tortillia you out of it, throw you, or even ultra.

Do not ever throw out a random Ultra, we will C. LK -> super you or slide and knock you down.

If the fuerte likes to ex run on wake up just command throw him. If he likes to run at you and slide…command throw him!

Your double punch normals can be ex run through and absorbed then punished, don’t commit to any moves with high recovery and don’t become predictable.

Your armor breaking HCF k move is punished with ease by a LK guacamole leg throw on reaction.

If the fuerte is running at you and is going to splash you anti-air grab him and stop his momentum.

The key to this fight is to stay calm and only do safe attacks you take a hell of a lot less damage than fuerte, you need to take advantage of that.

* Adon

Adon

Spoiler

Check Back Soon

* Balrog (Boxer)

Balrog

[details=Spoiler]Use your headbutt to escape our wakeup game, but don’t be baited, if Fuerte decides to run then his LK to step backwards and charge focus you might eat a large RSF or Ultra

Get a life lead and turtle, if he jumps in you have a wide variety of anti air options, standing still and blocking is not a good decision.

If the Fuerte is safe tortilla happy and is constantly using the Tortilla propeller throw on your wake up, stay calm and use an auto corrected ultra, the key is to stop Fuerte’s momentum.

Don’t throw out predictable rush punches as they may get focused, then punished with the daipan loop.
[/details]

* Blanka

Blanka

[details=Spoiler]

Anti-air blanka ball is easily air throwed
a random Blanka Ultra is easily EX guacamole
Electricity loses to Tortillia throw

Try to get the life lead and turtle, don’t go for the cross up blanka balls, they’re easily Guacamole / air throwed.

Don’t just block on wake up, (at least not often) a wake up ultra can stop a fuerte in his tracks if he thinks you wouldn’t do something that random.

If you throw out a blanka ball the fuerte can easily block it then run and slide to knock you down, now you’re playing the “Get me out of the fuerte wake up game” and thats exactly what the fuerte wants.

your slide is easily focused and punished, splashed or dropkicked (counter hit can lead to a C. MK -> super) be wary!

your command dash is very good, it can’t be punished with throw and is hard to punish in general. A predicted blanka dash can be punished with fuerte’s c. HK (slide) leading to the Fuerte wake up mix-up game.

You both have lots of gimmicks but Blanka has more damage, more health and a better way to escape. You clearly have the advantage in this match up.[/details]

* Cammy

Cammy

Spoiler

Well congratulations on your get out of jail (okizeme) free card!

Cannon Spike on wake up? Sure, if the El Fuerte is attempting a Tostada Press and he is ALREADY IN THE AIR if not just backdash or jump on wake up, play defensively and try not to get baited into a run stop fierce.

Cannon strike is a little easier to catch for Fuerte, if you’re chasing a backwards running Fuerte he can Tostada press you out of it, or bait a cannon spike, be very wary.

I know you want to jump in the air, and you know you enjoy it. As a fuerte player I also enjoy it with cammys are jump happy. You’re going to get guacamole leg throwed, don’t even think about it.

When Fuerte attempts to buy you a ticket to splash mountain neutral jump and air throw! that’s the oldest Cammy trick in the book.

Your little Frankensteiner flying ball of trickery move won’t work often, its easily beat with a lk guacamole.

Play smart and make sure you get a life lead. A good fuerte with do a little damage, take the life lead and run / turtle, and there is nothing your cute little butt can do about it.

(ex)Cannonspike fadc cannon spike combo does some serious damage, and seeing as it beats a majority of Fuerte’s attack options you need to capitalize on this. [/details]

* Chun-Li

Chun Li

Spoiler

Do not do predictable EX Spinning Bird Kicks, all too often I neutral jump to bait them and air throw to punish, you look silly and I look awesome.

Don’t jump too much you’re asking to be guacamole leg throwed

Neutral jump roundhouse gives some range, but loses to guacamole clean.

You’re in for a game of mindgames. Don’t jump in and double fierce, you’ll lose. We can even ex run through it.

If you jump while El Fuerte has ultra, the last thing you’ll hear is “GIGA BUSTER” before you lose the match.

You and fuerte take the same amount of damage, he’s easy to kill, but so are you. Take advantge of your range and fast throws. if the fuerte is EX running on wake up just throw him until he stops. if he is jumping then punish with air throw. This match up is pretty straight forward.

Don’t get knocked down, a chun-li on knockdown vs fuerte is like watching a turtle on his back in the desert.

* Cody

Cody

Spoiler

Check Back Soon

  • C. Viper

Crimson Viper

Spoiler

Her ex Seismic Hammer screws our wake up game. Our splashes become useless and she seems unable to be grabbed with Tortilla.

If you EX seismic hammer everytime the Fuerte runs at you it becomes very simple to delay the splash and knock you down.

You have tons of armor breakers, Fuerte’s EX run shouldn’t be a problem.

Without EX bar most C. Vipers will jump thinking this is the safest bet in reality it is the worst decision. Guacamole throw beats it as well as Fuerte’s air throw, not to mention Ultra.

This matchup can go either way, it seems like whoever gets the first combo to knockdown will destroy the other.

One run stop fierce and c. viper is missing a majority of her health bar.
One C. Viper BNB and fuerte is missing a chunk of his health bar.

Take advantage of your anti-air and DO-NOT-GET-BAITED. The last thing you want is to eat a run stop fierce or ultra.

* Dan

Dan

Spoiler

Put on the Dankukyaku pressure! Fuerte’s can backdash the LK version but it will beat Focus / Ex run / backdash (if used with HK/ex)

Build meter, get the life lead and turtle!

Don’t do jump ins, you’ll be punished.

If you do jump in, do it with a quick cross over LK DanKuKyaku.

if the fuerte is splash happy you can quickly focus cancel taunt his next splash attempt.

* Dee Jay

Dee Jay

Spoiler

Check Back Soon

* Dhalsim

Dhalsim

Spoiler

Rule number one in this fight is DO NOT BE PREDICTABLE.

Switch it up, don’t do predictable teleports, you’ll be punished.

Yoga tower beats our attacks on your wake up, and our ultra!

ex upflame can do wonders, utilize this great move!

don’t try to advance on fuerte, in the time it takes to do your LK slide, we can hop between the walls and still have enough time to RSF you before you finish!

Dhalsim and Fuerte take similar amounts of damage, do as much damage as possible

* Dudley

Dudley

Spoiler

Check Back Soon

* E. Honda

Edmond Honda

Spoiler

You’re going to want to turtle. Don’t do a full screen headbutt, we will hit you with a dropkick or something else (hopefully) instead get a small life lead and retreat.

If he jumps at you then you just have to neutral jump and slap him, if he runs at you (and he’s not baiting you) you can headbutt him.

We can also Air throw you out of headbutt pretty easily, that being said it is equally as easy to bait and punish an ultra with air throw, don’t fall for it.

If you jump in with J. Fierce the Fuerte can EX run through it and punish with tortillia. You just got knocked down and now you’re playing the “Watch the fat man try to stand up” game.

* Fei Long

Fei Long

Spoiler

GET HIM IN THE CORNER AND KEEP HIM THERE (here’s the important part) - IF HE DOESN’T HAVE METER.

All the pokes in the world won’t stop a fuerte with meter. Be afraid, be very afraid this is the time where if you guess wrong, get hit by a focus, or whiff something silly you will eat a Run Stop Fierce combo and lose a large chunk of your life.

When he has ultra don’t use your Shien Kyaku unless you KNOW it will hit or you’re in for a world of pain. DON’T JUMP and don’t do anything predictable that can land you in an ultra (a whiffed rekka, whiffed focus, a predictable chicken wing, or even the command grab (on reaction a skilled fuerte can cancel his jump using the first few air frames to defend himself from the throw and ultra you when you should have rightly grabbed him)

Super does beat a Fuerte splash, I’m not 100% on this but if the Fuerte has already committed to the Splash your super will hit. If he presses MP during dash after you super he will jump through the first punch and crush you.

* Gen

Gen

Spoiler

Gimmicks versus Gimmicks! Fun fun… not really

Your confusing dive kick will destroy us if we try to EX run

Your dive kicks can be airthrowed, so be wary.

your crane style crossover jumping MK is easily EX ran through and punished (or lk guacamole/ultraed)

* Gouken

Gouken

Spoiler

Probably the SCARIEST match up for fuerte.
your reverse DP motion parry beats splash/rsf/F.MK bicycle kick attempts FOR FREE and boy does it hurt.
hurricane kicks hurt a lot, and your ultra kills fuerte as if he were a house fly.

You have ten million options against fuerte, you should have little problems unless you know nothing about fuerte or your own character.

  • Gouki

Gouki

Spoiler

S. RH lol - teleport on wake up can be beaten by a fuerte option select.

  • Guile

Guile

Spoiler

I always hear “Fuerte is a bad matchup for Guile”

I have a lot of trouble with good guiles. You only have two moves and for some reason thats scary.

Flash kicks beat normal splashes, don’t get baited.
If he runs back and fakes a tortillia and you flash kick, he can easily jab you out of it and start a mix up game.

Fuertes can ex run through your sonic booms.

Your air throw is the BEST in the game. jump up and throw that fuerte if he is in the air.

Air throw Tortillia attemps, missed psychic guacamole leg throws, splash attempts…etc

Rush the fuerte down when he doesnt have meter, turtle when you have the life lead.

If you like to walk behind your LP sonic booms you’re in for a rude awakening when fuerte dropkicks you and dodges it.

Don’t get baited, a Flash Kick is probably the easiest move in the game for fuerte to punish. You will eat a RSF or Ultra

Charging back on wake up isn’t going to work most of the time, fuerte will just corpse hop you with F. MK and kill your charge. That being said charging down isn’t the best decision either though it can pay off. A good focus or an air grab will stop any Fuerte in his tracks, more often than not your Air throw will beat his - take advantage of that.

* Guy

Guy

Spoiler

Check Back Soon!

* Hakan

Hakan

Spoiler

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* Ibuki

Ibuki

Spoiler

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* Juri

Juri

Spoiler

Check Back Soon!

* Ken

Ken

Spoiler

your Dragon punches beat fuerte’s “Safe tortillia” strategy.

Ultra destroys splash attempts, ex huricane loses to guacamole, its all pretty straight forward.

Don’t jump, don’t be predictable, and don’t feel safe behind projectiles.

don’t you DARE whiff a dragon punch, you will eat a run stop fierce and lose a large majority of your health pool.

if you have Ultra bait Fuerte’s ultra, do small jumps that will make you land just before his ultra hits you, and ultra him back, you’ll win.

* Makoto

Makoto

Spoiler

Check Back Soon!

* M. Bison (Dictator)

M. Bison

[details=Spoiler]C
Full screen psycho crushers can be beat with far RH. or completly avoided., they can also be air throwed.

psyco crusher to get out of pressure can be beat by normal throws / tortillia throw.

double strong in the air is good if you don’t get guacamole / air throwed.

Your EX headstomp hurts, we can EX Guacamole throw you out of it but if you can land that headstomp do it, it will pay off.

* Rose

Rose

Spoiler

Rose is a strange one, your can easily grab us out of our splash/tortillia attempts.

You can put on decent pressure with your armor breakers and your ultra beats pretty much everything fuerte has.

EX run, splash attempt, tortillia attempt, predictable wall jump, if fuerte does any of this punish with ultra.

Rush him down when he has no meter. play mind games and don’t get baited.

* Rufus

Rufus

Spoiler

Double roundhouse in the air is great, don’t bother reseting with dive kick. EX snake strike is a much better option.

You deal TONS of damage and have a HUGE health pool, you have a great advantage.

don’t be predictable, and if you rush down the Fuerte when he has no meter you will win.

You have great footsies, fuerte does not.

* Ryu

Ryu

Spoiler

You want to be in the corner, go there! You’ll be safe.

Being in the corner reduces the amount of wakeup options Fuerte has against you.
Normally if you did a wake up shoryuken we could use Safe Tortillia to punish you, in the corner that is not the case. If we attempt safe tortillia we get hit by your SRK, fadc it to ultra and the Fuerte just lost a large chunk of his health. Don’t be predictable, and don’t get baited, we can still cancel our run and ultra you.

Most Ryu’s like to EX Hurricane Kick on their wake up occasionally, I find this to be a waste. I hardly ever see it hit Fuerte. If we do a backdash after a knock down and you assume we will try to Safe Tortillia you, just jump up and hit us with the double MP in the air, we can aim the tortillia over your EX hurricane kick and charge a focus or begin our mix up game.

all of fuerte’s damage comes off oki, punishing your slow specials on reaction, and keeping you out of your comfort zone with constant 50/50’s. don’t lose your shit. remember, you’re ryu, you have plenty of health to spare, and you only need to hit fuerte like 5 times before he croaks. react to fuerte late, he has plenty of ways to bait and punish you for 40 percent life or more. don’t predict, react. and if you’re blocking, you’re doing it wrong. rush fuerte down!

when you get knocked down, remember that fuerte has 2 basic options: he can try to throw you, or he can try to hit you. watch fuerte closely right before he gets up. if he’s running backwards, a tortilla is most likely to follow, hold up-back, then either jump back again to get away from the immediately following tortilla attempt, or start a focus to beat the splash.

if he runs toward you, he’s probably trying to hit you, as the fajita buster is not very safe, and comes out slowly. as such, either block correctly (high normal, high crossup, low), or start a focus and quickly dash cancel it towards fuerte, punishing with c.hp/c.lp xx whatever. if you’ve timed the focus correctly, it should come out facing the correct side and you’ll be able to hit fuerte with the focus every time. not necessarily with lvl 2, but at least a lvl 1 hit, then dash back and reset your rushdown spacing.

on knockdown, start oki with throws (beat ex run kara cancel ex run backwards), meaty low short into tick (the low short will get soaked up by ex run cancel ex run, but you’ll recover fast enough to jump back c.mk to beat the tortilla, focus to avoid the splash, etc), and, when you’ve got fuerte scared into standing still and teching after a knockdown, ex tatsu.

safe jump is also an excellent tool vs fuerte, as it beats the reversal ultra (neutral jump after jumping attack recovery to avoid it) as well as ex guac (avoids it, punish with walk forward, cmk xx tatsu). buffer a hk tatsu into your safe jump to beat the ex runs and back dashes.

to sum up – keep moving forward, don’t use slow specials/normals (and every normal is slow compared to fuerte’s options), and don’t lose your shit. watch fuerte closely, you can see the animation for tortilla come out, and it’s very different to that of splash/sweep. and when you get a knockdown, keep the momentum up!

* Sagat

Sagat

Spoiler

Strangely enough random Tiger Uppercuts work. El Fuerte thrives on guessing right and the risk/reward of a random TU is in your favor. Sagat has so much damage, range and health that if he lands that one TU (not even counting fadc) you will be able to keep your Fuerte opponent guessing, turning his own game against him.

High Tiger Shots can be easily ducked or even punished with a slide. Low Tiger Shots build you meter, but can easily be dodged with a Low Kick Guacamole Leg Throw, used to build El Fuerte’s meter. Even at full screen a tiger shot can be punished by Fuerte’s Ultra simply because your arms extend to far that we are able to grab your hitbox. More advanced Fuertes will EX run through the tiger shot and ultra you before your animation is finished.

Fuerte can not guacamole throw you out of your Tiger Uppercut, applying the technique of “Safe Tortilla” will only make Fuerte land behind you (Though this could lead to Fuerte landing his ultra before you touch the ground, Run Stop Fierce, or a slide.)

Tiger Knees work wonders, they break armor, do a decent amount of damage and are much harder to punish with ultra than a whiffed Tiger Uppercut.

* Sakura

Sakura

Spoiler

This matchup is completly in your favor.

Don’t bother doing projectiles, rush that fuerte down and if he gets the life lead don’t even try to turtle.

armor breakers are your friend, any kind of pressure you can put on is good.

* Seth

Seth

Spoiler

If you eat a Run stop fierce, chances are you just lost the match.

your little hurricane kick can do massive amounts of damage, and your dragon punch is perfect for fighting off that pesky fuerte.

jump back fierce on reaction all the time to zone elf’s - jump back at the last minute and if they do anything other than stop/continue running you can punish it with this.

tanden engine will suck elf out of his run for a free combo, and legs will also catch elf out of his run (ex legs will do the same but also with invincibility), as will seths super and ultra. Elf’s wall jump is punishable on reaction by srk > combo, super and ultra

Both srk and spd beat a large number of elf’s end of run options and seths teleport can quite effectively get him out of mixups.
Seth should be trying to keep elf at full screen and punishing elfs attempts to get in, elf should be trying to lock seth in the corner, trying to catch any attempts by seth to wall jump out (which is in seths interest to try and do) with his guacamole slew, and keeping the pressure on. Also rsf is a very important tool for elf in this match seeing as seth has only 750 stun (same as his health).

Best ways for elf to get close to seth I think are run > stop > guacamole slew to bait seths jumping fierce - this move seems to have fast recovery for elf so afaik it’s hard to punish if whiffed. And also elf’s ex run, which remember tanden and legs will suck/hit you out of, so I guess with this a lot of run stop fakery is good trying to bait seth in to one of these moves (if he does legs and its blocked you will be at enough frame advantage for rsf I think). tanden whiffing is also the time you want to be getting in close with wall jump.

* T. Hawk

T. Hawk

Spoiler

Check Back Soon!

* Vega (Claw)

Vega

Spoiler

Don’t be predictable with your off the wall moves, we can air grab / guacamole them.

don’t get destroyed on wake up, but if you use your invulnurable 3 button get away moves they can be punished with a double C. roundhouse by fuerte.

if your ultra is blocked, we can punish with our ultra.

* Zangief

Zangief

Spoiler

Be patient, but don’t be cocky. You’re in for a long match here if the Fuerte is good at running away.

Do not randomly Lariat or Focus, we will Quesadilla bomb you furthering our life lead then run away.

If the Fuerte jumps off the wall towards you he most likely won’t be using Splash, the risk/reward isn’t in our favor. (not to say that you won’t see a Fuerte to this) The Fuerte most likely will be using his flying throw against you, knock you down and run away.

If he slides at you the game just turned in your favor, one blocked slide to any 360 or 720 will destroy us and more than likely give you the life lead.

Spam jabs and longer range attacks on our wake up. The Fuerte will either eat damage or burn an EX bar to EX run away from you.

The wakeup guessing games are ok, pretty even I would say. Fuerte has the advantage each time, but since Gief does so much more damage when he guesses right and doesn’t take much damage when Fuerte guesses right, they probably come out to about even. If Fuerte pushes his luck once you have ultra/super, well, that’s pretty stupid of him.

Wakeup Guessing Game:
Fuerte does Run->splash
BEATS: Jump, low block, forward dash
LOSES: Focus, backdash, Stand block, EX hand
Fuerte does Run->grab
BEATS: Focus, block, forward dash
LOSES: backdash, jump, EX hand
Fuerte does Run->splash/grab aimed at Gief’s back
BEATS: backdash, jump
LOSES: forward dash, Ex hand
Fuerte does Run->splash/grab aimed at Gief’s front
BEATS: forward dash, EX hand, jump
LOSES: backdash

There’s a crapload of options here, so it’s nowhere near a 50/50. It’s a wheel of options like an extended rock-paper-scissors where some options lead to damage, some lead to escape with one character having the advantage, and some lead to escape and neutral advantage. But more of Fuerte’s options lead to damage than Gief’s do, so while Gief’s damaging options are more damaging when he lands them, the probably damage output tends to even out.

Thing is though, Fuerte doesn’t have to do wakeup games at all, he can get by on controlling the pace of the match. Fuerte’s really good at running from Gief and even at zoning Gief out, so it can be hard for Gief to actually deal damage. There isn’t really a good spot for Gief to stand or anything, I mean even when he gets Fuerte near the corner, Fuerte can just wall jump or fake wall jump out. The only places Gief has an advantage are when Fuerte is waking up and when he’s right up on Fuerte in the corner, but both of those situations are hard for him to force.

=================


Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread
#2

great work! i have to say thats a very good idea indeed :slight_smile:
waiting for updates :slight_smile:


#3

I put notes on the Matchup thread for things to watch out for, which basically tells people what to do to win. I’ve gotten plenty of counter-info just by looking at other character’s matchup info.

anyway:

VS Scrub Fuertes: Jump alot, jump back alot.

In General: Fuerte has ultra = stop jumping alot

VS Fuerte who can’t RSF = Do whatever you want, he’s no threat.

VS Fuerte who CAN RSF = Dont even think of doing something high risk unless you are sure it will hit, otherwise get ready to get reverse slapped into oblivion.

If you like to turtle = get the life lead first dumbass. Fuerte can out turtle you.


#4

I like this thread. The perspective is unique enough to not be grouped within the match-ups, at least not yet.

Air-throws (Guile, Rose, Vega, …) seem to consistently beat my splashes.


#5

.

Spoiler

This thread is intended to inform non-El Fuerte players of our tricks and shenanigans. as well as give more information out to the SF community

I come across a plethora of great players who never know what to do against Fuerte.
They always want to know “How do I beat this” “What beats what?” and I always feel bad not knowing what to say. They share their secrets with me, and all I can really say is “Backdash/focus my splashes” “Jump when I tortilla” and “don’t shoryuken on wakeup”

I’ve gotten accustomed to just telling people to “Guess correctly and you’ll win” that usually suffices and they’ll go back to playing, but something seems wrong with that statement. It can’t be that simple, so I have created this thread to discuss strategies on how to beat El Fuerte.

==============================================

[spoiler=Abel]

==============================================
Abel

If a Fuerte charges focus and releases it you can usually just command throw him out of it.

Rolls are not your friends, we can Tortillia you out of it, throw you, or even ultra.

Do not ever throw out a random Ultra, we will C. LK -> super you or slide and knock you down.

If the fuerte likes to ex run on wake up just command throw him. If he likes to run at you and slide…command throw him!

Your double punch normals can be ex run through and absorbed then punished, don’t commit to any moves with high recovery and don’t become predictable.

Your armor breaking HCF k move is punished with ease by a LK guacamole leg throw on reaction.

If the fuerte is running at you and is going to splash you anti-air grab him and stop his momentum.

The key to this fight is to stay calm and only do safe attacks you take a hell of a lot less damage than fuerte, you need to take advantage of that.

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Balrog

Spoiler

==============================================

Balrog (boxer)

Use your headbutt to escape our wakeup game, but don’t be baited, if Fuerte decides to run then his LK to step backwards and charge focus you might eat a large RSF or Ultra

Get a life lead and turtle, if he jumps in you have a wide variety of anti air options, standing still and blocking is not a good decision.

If the Fuerte is safe tortilla happy and is constantly using the Tortilla propeller throw on your wake up, stay calm and use an auto corrected ultra, the key is to stop Fuerte’s momentum.

Don’t throw out predictable rush punches as they may get focused, then punished with the daipan loop.

==============================================

Blanka

Spoiler

==============================================

Blanka

Anti-air blanka ball is easily air throwed
a random Blanka Ultra is easily EX guacamole
Electricity loses to Tortillia throw

Try to get the life lead and turtle, don’t go for the cross up blanka balls, they’re easily Guacamole / air throwed.

Don’t just block on wake up, (at least not often) a wake up ultra can stop a fuerte in his tracks if he thinks you wouldn’t do something that random.

If you throw out a blanka ball the fuerte can easily block it then run and slide to knock you down, now you’re playing the “Get me out of the fuerte wake up game” and thats exactly what the fuerte wants.

your slide is easily focused and punished, splashed or dropkicked (counter hit can lead to a C. MK -> super) be wary!

your command dash is very good, it can’t be punished with throw and is hard to punish in general. A predicted blanka dash can be punished with fuerte’s c. HK (slide) leading to the Fuerte wake up mix-up game.

You both have lots of gimmicks but Blanka has more damage, more health and a better way to escape. You clearly have the advantage in this match up.

Cammy

Spoiler

==============================================

Cammy

Well congratulations on your get out of jail (okizeme) free card!

Cannon Spike on wake up? Sure, if the El Fuerte is attempting a Tostada Press and he is ALREADY IN THE AIR if not just backdash or jump on wake up, play defensively and try not to get baited into a run stop fierce.

Cannon strike is a little easier to catch for Fuerte, if you’re chasing a backwards running Fuerte he can Tostada press you out of it, or bait a cannon spike, be very wary.

I know you want to jump in the air, and you know you enjoy it. As a fuerte player I also enjoy it with cammys are jump happy. You’re going to get guacamole leg throwed, don’t even think about it.

When Fuerte attempts to buy you a ticket to splash mountain neutral jump and air throw! that’s the oldest Cammy trick in the book.

Your little Frankensteiner flying ball of trickery move won’t work often, its easily beat with a lk guacamole.

Play smart and make sure you get a life lead. A good fuerte with do a little damage, take the life lead and run / turtle, and there is nothing your cute little butt can do about it.

(ex)Cannonspike fadc cannon spike combo does some serious damage, and seeing as it beats a majority of Fuerte’s attack options you need to capitalize on this.

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Chun-Li

Spoiler

==============================================

Chun-Li

Do not do predictable EX Spinning Bird Kicks, all too often I neutral jump to bait them and air throw to punish, you look silly and I look awesome.

Don’t jump too much you’re asking to be guacamole leg throwed

Neutral jump roundhouse gives some range, but loses to guacamole clean.

You’re in for a game of mindgames. Don’t jump in and double fierce, you’ll lose. We can even ex run through it.

If you jump while El Fuerte has ultra, the last thing you’ll hear is “GIGA BUSTER” before you lose the match.

You and fuerte take the same amount of damage, he’s easy to kill, but so are you. Take advantge of your range and fast throws. if the fuerte is EX running on wake up just throw him until he stops. if he is jumping then punish with air throw. This match up is pretty straight forward.

Don’t get knocked down, a chun-li on knockdown vs fuerte is like watching a turtle on his back in the desert.

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Crimson Viper

Spoiler

==============================================
**
C.Viper -**

Her ex Seismic Hammer screws our wake up game. Our splashes become useless and she seems unable to be grabbed with Tortilla.

If you EX seismic hammer everytime the Fuerte runs at you it becomes very simple to delay the splash and knock you down.

You have tons of armor breakers, Fuerte’s EX run shouldn’t be a problem.

Without EX bar most C. Vipers will jump thinking this is the safest bet in reality it is the worst decision. Guacamole throw beats it as well as Fuerte’s air throw, not to mention Ultra.

This matchup can go either way, it seems like whoever gets the first combo to knockdown will destroy the other.

One run stop fierce and c. viper is missing a majority of her health bar.
One C. Viper BNB and fuerte is missing a chunk of his health bar.

Take advantage of your anti-air and DO-NOT-GET-BAITED. The last thing you want is to eat a run stop fierce or ultra.

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Dan

Spoiler

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Dan

Put on the Dankukyaku pressure! Fuerte’s can backdash the LK version but it will beat Focus / Ex run / backdash (if used with HK/ex)

Build meter, get the life lead and turtle!

Don’t do jump ins, you’ll be punished.

If you do jump in, do it with a quick cross over LK DanKuKyaku.

if the fuerte is splash happy you can quickly focus cancel taunt his next splash attempt.

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Dhalsim

Spoiler

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Dhalsim

Rule number one in this fight is DO NOT BE PREDICTABLE.

Switch it up, don’t do predictable teleports, you’ll be punished.

Yoga tower beats our attacks on your wake up, and our ultra!

ex upflame can do wonders, utilize this great move!

don’t try to advance on fuerte, in the time it takes to do your LK slide, we can hop between the walls and still have enough time to RSF you before you finish!

Dhalsim and Fuerte take similar amounts of damage, do as much damage as possible

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Edmond Honda

Spoiler

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Honda

You’re going to want to turtle. Don’t do a full screen headbutt, we will hit you with a dropkick or something else (hopefully) instead get a small life lead and retreat.

If he jumps at you then you just have to neutral jump and slap him, if he runs at you (and he’s not baiting you) you can headbutt him.

We can also Air throw you out of headbutt pretty easily, that being said it is equally as easy to bait and punish an ultra with air throw, don’t fall for it.

If you jump in with J. Fierce the Fuerte can EX run through it and punish with tortillia. You just got knocked down and now you’re playing the “Watch the fat man try to stand up” game.

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Fei Long

Spoiler

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Fei Long

GET HIM IN THE CORNER AND KEEP HIM THERE (here’s the important part) - IF HE DOESN’T HAVE METER.

All the pokes in the world won’t stop a fuerte with meter. Be afraid, be very afraid this is the time where if you guess wrong, get hit by a focus, or whiff something silly you will eat a Run Stop Fierce combo and lose a large chunk of your life.

When he has ultra don’t use your Shien Kyaku unless you KNOW it will hit or you’re in for a world of pain. DON’T JUMP and don’t do anything predictable that can land you in an ultra (a whiffed rekka, whiffed focus, a predictable chicken wing, or even the command grab (on reaction a skilled fuerte can cancel his jump using the first few air frames to defend himself from the throw and ultra you when you should have rightly grabbed him)

Super does beat a Fuerte splash, I’m not 100% on this but if the Fuerte has already committed to the Splash your super will hit. If he presses MP during dash after you super he will jump through the first punch and crush you.

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Gen

Spoiler

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Gen

Gimmicks versus Gimmicks! Fun fun… not really

Your confusing dive kick will destroy us if we try to EX run

Your dive kicks can be airthrowed, so be wary.

your crane style crossover jumping MK is easily EX ran through and punished (or lk guacamole/ultraed)

Be afraid of Run stop fierce, but keep in mind that the fuerte should be equally afraid of MK-> Hands

you can do Crane ultra to combat Fuerte’s splash/tortillia/fajita trickery, remember that.

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Gouken

Spoiler

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Gouken

Probably the SCARIEST match up for fuerte.
your reverse DP motion parry beats splash/rsf/F.MK bicycle kick attempts FOR FREE and boy does it hurt.
hurricane kicks hurt a lot, and your ultra kills fuerte as if he were a house fly.

You have ten million options against fuerte, you should have little problems unless you know nothing about fuerte or your own character.

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Guile

Spoiler

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I always hear “Fuerte is a bad matchup for Guile”

I have a lot of trouble with good guiles. You only have two moves and for some reason thats scary.

Flash kicks beat normal splashes, don’t get baited.
If he runs back and fakes a tortillia and you flash kick, he can easily jab you out of it and start a mix up game.

Fuertes can ex run through your sonic booms.

Your air throw is the BEST in the game. jump up and throw that fuerte if he is in the air.

Air throw Tortillia attemps, missed psychic guacamole leg throws, splash attempts…etc

Rush the fuerte down when he doesnt have meter, turtle when you have the life lead.

If you like to walk behind your LP sonic booms you’re in for a rude awakening when fuerte dropkicks you and dodges it.

Don’t get baited, a Flash Kick is probably the easiest move in the game for fuerte to punish. You will eat a RSF or Ultra

Charging back on wake up isn’t going to work most of the time, fuerte will just corpse hop you with F. MK and kill your charge. That being said charging down isn’t the best decision either though it can pay off. A good focus or an air grab will stop any Fuerte in his tracks, more often than not your Air throw will beat his - take advantage of that.

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Ken

Spoiler

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Ken

your Dragon punches beat fuerte’s “Safe tortillia” strategy.

Ultra destroys splash attempts, ex huricane loses to guacamole, its all pretty straight forward.

Don’t jump, don’t be predictable, and don’t feel safe behind projectiles.

don’t you DARE whiff a dragon punch, you will eat a run stop fierce and lose a large majority of your health pool.

if you have Ultra bait Fuerte’s ultra, do small jumps that will make you land just before his ultra hits you, and ultra him back, you’ll win.

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M.Bison

Spoiler

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M.Bison

Full screen psycho crushers can be beat with far RH. or completly avoided., they can also be air throwed.

psyco crusher to get out of pressure can be beat by normal throws / tortillia throw.

double strong in the air is good if you don’t get guacamole / air throwed.

Your EX headstomp hurts, we can EX Guacamole throw you out of it but if you can land that headstomp do it, it will pay off.

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Rose

Spoiler

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Rose

Rose is a strange one, your can easily grab us out of our splash/tortillia attempts.

You can put on decent pressure with your armor breakers and your ultra beats pretty much everything fuerte has.

EX run, splash attempt, tortillia attempt, predictable wall jump, if fuerte does any of this punish with ultra.

Rush him down when he has no meter. play mind games and don’t get baited.

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Rufus

Spoiler

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Rufus

Double roundhouse in the air is great, don’t bother reseting with dive kick. EX snake strike is a much better option.

You deal TONS of damage and have a HUGE health pool, you have a great advantage.

don’t be predictable, and if you rush down the Fuerte when he has no meter you will win.

You have great footsies, fuerte does not.

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Ryu

Spoiler

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Ryu

You want to be in the corner, go there! You’ll be safe.

Being in the corner reduces the amount of wakeup options Fuerte has against you.
Normally if you did a wake up shoryuken we could use Safe Tortillia to punish you, in the corner that is not the case. If we attempt safe tortillia we get hit by your SRK, fadc it to ultra and the Fuerte just lost a large chunk of his health. Don’t be predictable, and don’t get baited, we can still cancel our run and ultra you.

Most Ryu’s like to EX Hurricane Kick on their wake up occasionally, I find this to be a waste. I hardly ever see it hit Fuerte. If we do a backdash after a knock down and you assume we will try to Safe Tortillia you, just jump up and hit us with the double MP in the air, we can aim the tortillia over your EX hurricane kick and charge a focus or begin our mix up game.

ryu’s best option is to rush it down vs fuerte. forget your normal zoning with fireballs and predictive c.mks, fuerte will dance around all that bullshit all day and build free ultra off your fireballs. simply walk forward until fuerte has gone into the corner, focusing any splash/sweep attempts, jumping back to ward off the run throw, and so on. counter all his options until he’s in the corner, then begin your normal corner offense, keeping in mind that fuerte’s ultra is an excellent reversal.

all of fuerte’s damage comes off oki, punishing your slow specials on reaction, and keeping you out of your comfort zone with constant 50/50’s. don’t lose your shit. remember, you’re ryu, you have plenty of health to spare, and you only need to hit fuerte like 5 times before he croaks. react to fuerte late, he has plenty of ways to bait and punish you for 40 percent life or more. don’t predict, react. and if you’re blocking, you’re doing it wrong. rush fuerte down!

when you get knocked down, remember that fuerte has 2 basic options: he can try to throw you, or he can try to hit you. watch fuerte closely right before he gets up. if he’s running backwards, a tortilla is most likely to follow, hold up-back, then either jump back again to get away from the immediately following tortilla attempt, or start a focus to beat the splash.

if he runs toward you, he’s probably trying to hit you, as the fajita buster is not very safe, and comes out slowly. as such, either block correctly (high normal, high crossup, low), or start a focus and quickly dash cancel it towards fuerte, punishing with c.hp/c.lp xx whatever. if you’ve timed the focus correctly, it should come out facing the correct side and you’ll be able to hit fuerte with the focus every time. not necessarily with lvl 2, but at least a lvl 1 hit, then dash back and reset your rushdown spacing.

on knockdown, start oki with throws (beat ex run kara cancel ex run backwards), meaty low short into tick (the low short will get soaked up by ex run cancel ex run, but you’ll recover fast enough to jump back c.mk to beat the tortilla, focus to avoid the splash, etc), and, when you’ve got fuerte scared into standing still and teching after a knockdown, ex tatsu.

safe jump is also an excellent tool vs fuerte, as it beats the reversal ultra (neutral jump after jumping attack recovery to avoid it) as well as ex guac (avoids it, punish with walk forward, cmk xx tatsu). buffer a hk tatsu into your safe jump to beat the ex runs and back dashes.

to sum up – keep moving forward, don’t use slow specials/normals (and every normal is slow compared to fuerte’s options), and don’t lose your shit. watch fuerte closely, you can see the animation for tortilla come out, and it’s very different to that of splash/sweep. and when you get a knockdown, keep the momentum up!

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Thanks to: Inertia- for his help in this section!

Sagat

Spoiler

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Sagat -

Strangely enough random Tiger Uppercuts work. El Fuerte thrives on guessing right and the risk/reward of a random TU is in your favor. Sagat has so much damage, range and health that if he lands that one TU (not even counting fadc) you will be able to keep your Fuerte opponent guessing, turning his own game against him.

High Tiger Shots can be easily ducked or even punished with a slide. Low Tiger Shots build you meter, but can easily be dodged with a Low Kick Guacamole Leg Throw, used to build El Fuerte’s meter. Even at full screen a tiger shot can be punished by Fuerte’s Ultra simply because your arms extend to far that we are able to grab your hitbox. More advanced Fuertes will EX run through the tiger shot and ultra you before your animation is finished.

Fuerte can not guacamole throw you out of your Tiger Uppercut, applying the technique of “Safe Tortilla” will only make Fuerte land behind you (Though this could lead to Fuerte landing his ultra before you touch the ground, Run Stop Fierce, or a slide.)

Tiger Knees work wonders, they break armor, do a decent amount of damage and are much harder to punish with ultra than a whiffed Tiger Uppercut.

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Sakura

Spoiler

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Sakura

This matchup is completly in your favor.

Don’t bother doing projectiles, rush that fuerte down and if he gets the life lead don’t even try to turtle.

armor breakers are your friend, any kind of pressure you can put on is good.

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Seth

Spoiler

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If you eat a Run stop fierce, chances are you just lost the match.

your little hurricane kick can do massive amounts of damage, and your dragon punch is perfect for fighting off that pesky fuerte.

jump back fierce on reaction all the time to zone elf’s - jump back at the last minute and if they do anything other than stop/continue running you can punish it with this.

tanden engine will suck elf out of his run for a free combo, and legs will also catch elf out of his run (ex legs will do the same but also with invincibility), as will seths super and ultra. Elf’s wall jump is punishable on reaction by srk > combo, super and ultra

Both srk and spd beat a large number of elf’s end of run options and seths teleport can quite effectively get him out of mixups.
Seth should be trying to keep elf at full screen and punishing elfs attempts to get in, elf should be trying to lock seth in the corner, trying to catch any attempts by seth to wall jump out (which is in seths interest to try and do) with his guacamole slew, and keeping the pressure on. Also rsf is a very important tool for elf in this match seeing as seth has only 750 stun (same as his health).

Best ways for elf to get close to seth I think are run > stop > guacamole slew to bait seths jumping fierce - this move seems to have fast recovery for elf so afaik it’s hard to punish if whiffed. And also elf’s ex run, which remember tanden and legs will suck/hit you out of, so I guess with this a lot of run stop fakery is good trying to bait seth in to one of these moves (if he does legs and its blocked you will be at enough frame advantage for rsf I think). tanden whiffing is also the time you want to be getting in close with wall jump.

Thanks to Thawkins for his help in this section!

Vega

Spoiler

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Vega is a tricky one for fuerte.

Don’t be predictable with your off the wall moves, we can air grab / guacamole them.

don’t get destroyed on wake up, but if you use your invulnurable 3 button get away moves they can be punished with a double C. roundhouse by fuerte.

if your ultra is blocked, we can punish with our ultra.

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Zangief

Spoiler

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Zangief

Be patient, but don’t be cocky. You’re in for a long match here if the Fuerte is good at running away.

Do not randomly Lariat or Focus, we will Quesadilla bomb you furthering our life lead then run away.

If the Fuerte jumps off the wall towards you he most likely won’t be using Splash, the risk/reward isn’t in our favor. (not to say that you won’t see a Fuerte to this) The Fuerte most likely will be using his flying throw against you, knock you down and run away.

If he slides at you the game just turned in your favor, one blocked slide to any 360 or 720 will destroy us and more than likely give you the life lead.

Spam jabs and longer range attacks on our wake up. The Fuerte will either eat damage or burn an EX bar to EX run away from you.

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#6

I don’t agree with what your saying about Fuerte’s who can’t RSF. I happened to beat nestor one of the better players in this area. He has beaten justin wong in CvS2 and is the best around in MA. I am the fuerte in this video and I had been successful in beating him in a tourney match and I couldn’t RSF. Here is the video to prove it.

[media=youtube]pwtoZr23QtU[/media]

What I am saying to everybody who plays against any fuerte is this DON’T UNDER ESTIMATE!!


#7

I’m going to admit my underestimation. I can only do a two hit RSF and thats not consistent, but I get my wins… And I own some times…

I am wrong. I have insulted my fellow fuertes

EDIT: Nice vid. FGB for the motherfucking win


#8

Thx Densuo and also if copcom does another beta for SSF4 and they have fuerte on it let us know how he is.


#9

suggesting random wake up shoryukens is honestly not a very good suggestion, most definitely against a fuerte that knows rsf. i usually try to base my entire game around baiting srks against characters that have them

btw, telling a ryu to go sit in the corner is probably the single worst piece of advice you have here =/


#10

Why are we the only character thread that has this??? Its already easy enough to beat fuerte why have a thread about it lolz.


#11

Tell that to my opposing players.

I’ll be finishing this thread and sending a message to the mods to request a sticky, please check back soon.

Now I just need to find how to add the Spoiler code.


#12

Seems like pretty low level stuff. Especially that the stuff that your opponents seem to be doing, if it’s those listed above. I lol’d irl at the wake up EX stomp.


#13

The only thing I find low level is your reading comprehension. If these strategies are low level stuff then I guess I’m a low level player. Luckily you’re here to judge my information and not add any insight except for laughing at a non-existent statement.
:arazz:


#14

so wait why is this thread a good thing?


#15

Wha…?

I never knew you could punish Sagat a FULL SCREEN away if he’s tiger shotting with ultra…


#16

Keeping in mind that El Fuerte’s backdash is extremely short. With the length of El Fuerte’s backdash between him and the corner you can catch Sagat in a TS.

That is not “full screen” but very, VERY close.

Here’s a couple pictures to illustrate it.

This is showing where you would stand in relation to a neutral Sagat.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4794/elf1f.png

This is showing Sagat’s apparent grabbable hitbox with ultra during a high Tigershot

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7469/elf2.png

I also go on to say

This is the point I am trying to get across. At full screen El Fuerte can EX run through a tiger shot (or ex tiger shot) stop at the same position highlighted in red in my pictures and catch Sagat in his next tiger shot, as Sagat players often throw more than one projectile at a time.

This is achieved by executing the EX Habanero Dash then quickly buffering the Ultra motion
(:qcf: :qcf:) then quickly pressing :lp: ~ :lk: + :mk: + :hk:


#17

Wut about low TS?


#18

The hitbox is the same, just lower. There is no visible difference in the case of El Fuerte’s ultra. It is the same as catching a standing opponent with ultra as opposed to a crouching opponent.


#19

I know Akuma gets a free demon if Fuerte tries to tortilla at it’s longest range. But if Fuerte’s close, he just jumps over akuma(I think).


#20

I am constantly surprised when I am hit by a demon when attempting a safe tortilla, I have always assumed I timed it wrong. I will test this later and post my results, thank you for the information.