How do you deal with turtling?

juri

#1

I play a rushdown Juri, and sometimes when needed I throw some zoning in. Even though I’m pretty bad and play with mixups and easy b&b I have a decent win rate with her (C+, 70%) and most times I’m able to pop other player’s can except one type of players: the turtles.
They play Blanka or Honda (maybe Guile, Hawk or Vega). The game starts, they jump back to fullscreen and wait…if I charge a fireball I bet facemashed by headbutt, same if I jump, divekick or dash forward. They don’t need the greatest reaction time to just punish me for doing anything. Case I get close to them their pokes are just better than mines, or even on par if I get to land a couple of hits to get a knowckdown (mash ALL the throws) just to start again.
How do you deal with that kind of matches?
EDIT: PC pre-2012 version.
EDIT2: Case B -> Cammy low blocks all match. Up close her pokes are better than yours, she can dive under/over long range fireballs and she can punish pinwheel, overhead and divekick.


#2

You fireball. Haha. IMO, this makes them stop turtling. I store x Infinity and chip x infinity


#3

Problem is storing is not safe in this context, same with Sakura. Or at least every time I tried I just got a flying fat man ramming my tits.


#4

Get frustrated, go in, lose.

You can throw fireballs but you have to be smart about it because one headbutt is going to undo all of your work. If you’re full screen your fireballs won’t even chip, if you’re any closer you’re probably getting whiff punished. So you have to move and you have to be unpredictable.


#5

This literally made me laugh out loud.

Anyway back to your problem. A good way to beat a turtler is to get in their face. You have to make them uncomfortable with their current strategy. If you don’t, then you’re going to be dealing with flying fat men and hairy cannonballs for the whole match.


#6

play smart and don’t get greedy. I always make that mistake. Especially with honda. I go into auto pilot and get greedy when i should chill. =\ I don’t think the match up is that bad but you can’t be low on hp in that match up because it makes your chances of winning a bit difficult.
What kail said. Build meter. No opponent is gonna let you build meter especially if you’re only in round 1. You carry that over to round 2 or round 3 depending on the situation. Meter advantage means you can go a bit nuts or throw ex mid fuhajin to prevent honda from moving or randomly headbutting.
Really just play lame as well. Juri can do that. Your character is multifaceted she doesn’t always have to go in. She feeds off the situation and not so much off momentum because she can eat a random dp or headbutt trying to rush down.


#7

A whiffed Store has a total framecount of 31. You’re telling me a Honda fullscreen headbutts (this takes ~56f) on reaction and wouldn’t need … pretty good reactions for that?

You’re telling me a … Hawk … of all people … is turtling against you? Why does everyone play Juri like she is Cammy, arrrrrr :shake:


#8

Yea. Ex headbutt can beat store because it doesn’t need to be on reaction. He can spam headbutt. There’s no huge risk involved. He can guess and catch you about to store.

You’re not playing the mind games then. I have a lot of turtle Honda experience. It’s bad. Be patient. Fake fireballs. Let go of them without throwing them (far mp, far lp, far hk are good ones as mp moves you forward and fireball won’t activate).

You can sometimes fake Honda out by qcf + p. I usually do things like qcf + p and then far hp. If he tries to react to the “fireball” he eats hp. Most hondas won’t fall for this twice.

You have to vary it up is what im saying to you. Throw more mp fireballs and slowly walk forward. Watch his charge. Once he loses back charge I’ll run up after a lk fireball

You Just have to use your noodle on this… Bait a headbutt. I jab them. Fuck that.

Hawk is easier. Only got one special to watch for and that’s condor dive. You can see that coming.


#9

This is certainly true, but that doesn’t have a thing to do with reactions. And the “no risk involved” certainly isn’t true for the other chars on that list (Blanka, Claw). Guile turtles because he’s a turtle. Hawk turtling sounds flat retarded; why would you go after him :S


#10

Because I’m bad and used to low level online, full of Ryu, Ken, Ibuki and Oni. I play Juri as Cammy because she feels like she can sustain more damage, yet when you feel you’re losing you can start the zoning game, which I’m learning slowly.


#11

Also a MK fireball beats out Honda’s Headbutt also as long as he doesn’t have meter you can bait him doing a headbutt and release a MK fireball do that a few times and watch him squirm.


#12

It’s 100% a goal of yours to take headbutt from him I.e. Stop him before he reaches you.

Learn to stuff him on reaction. I can stuff any of them outside of sweep range as long as it’s not ex. Ex i can do 3/4th of screen.

Once they realize they can’t mixed with fireballs… Then they will jump in. We can stop this.

This is how I play this match

Essentially what I’m saying if youre asking how to zone… You fireball and push him forward, and stop any advances for random damage.


#13

Not to tell you how to play, but Juri isn’t Cammy. She never will be. She is passive agressive. If you don’t have the meter and positioning to apply pressure, you need to step back. She doesn’t have the specials, normals, or traps to stay in. She just doesn’t.

As for Honda, keep a MK fireball stored if you aren’t in his face. Honda can’t out turtle you from the beginning of a round. Be smart. Use your fireballs wisely. He will get impatient. It’s like most Guiles. They want you to eat a sonic boom so badly. Meanwhile, you’re gaining meterwith stores, teleport and focus.


#14

Honda can’t turtle juri. The problem comes from random damage. Honda gets 1 headbutt that’s 4 fireballs. And he can just use the headbutt randomly.

You really gotta look at the players habits. Throw a low. If he neutral jumps a dash lk pinwheel beats him out of it. If you do it right after a pinwheel that hits once (airborne) can super/ultra off that.

Example pinwheel fadc ultra. In the corner no fadc needed.

You have lots of wys to deal with hondas reactions. Do it.


#15

what’s with all this rushdown juri nonsense? it doesn’t work unless you’re playing shit cunts. sorry but it’s the truth.

also, half the matches you listed are 6 - 4 or worse for Juri so you’re going to have problems regardless.

try walking forward a bit, then blocking? it’s pretty logical… walk forward, block (you’re safe), walk forward, block (you’re safe), they throw out a poke because they don’t want you get too close, it whiffs, punish it, you’re in.

another situation? walk forward, block (you’re safe), walk forward, block (you’re safe), they jump because they’re scared of being backed into the corner, anti air, dash forward, free mixup and you’re in.

in terms of your game plan with juri, you should be reversing the order. go into the match and back off. start your zoning game and get to know what they like to do. eventually they’ll either get frustrated you’re building free meter and come at you, or you would have stuffed their many attempts to get in, which would also frustrate them and force mistakes that you can capitalize on. that is what juri is all about.

completely irrelevant yet perfect example: next time someone picks guile against you, pick rose. you might not know how to play rose at all… that’s fine. qcb.strong (reflect) and low fierce. that’s all you need to know. back off and every time he throws a boom, reflect it. every time he jumps, low fierce. said guile player is now annoyed because he can’t play ‘his’ game. watch what happens.


#16

This right here. Juri does get mauled by turtle characters. As i said before you gotta take your time. Juri isn’t strictly rush down. You can’t rush down a character that has better footsies and wake up options than you do. Why do you wanna eat random dp? Why do you wanna block a three frame jab that’s +4 on block? Juri is no lame brain character. If you’re not thinking of what is going on expect to get blown up by not only turtle characters but smarter opponents.


#17

hehehe been there got DPd that. I incorporated the fireball game on the first round and the game got better, infinite charges for super on first match is just awesome. Matches 2-3 depend on how scared my opponent is, but most C+ to D don’t expect to be WOLOLORUSHED after seeing a fireball match. I still have problems with turtlies but I’m starting to learn to block lol


#18

Here are some things I learned, I’m not the best juri but I can hold my own I think. I mainly play fuhajins to frustrate opponent that tries to get in, then do pressure if they’re actually good at getting in.

Against Cammy, keep a low fuhajin stocked at all times. I’m pretty sure you can do the lk lk lk pinwheel links with lp instead, I use LK but if you’re charging then its unavaliable. Some cammys like to cannon spike all the time, teach them that its not okay. Bait out EX spiral arrow since its unsafe. your goal is to frustrate as a zoner. Feng Shui Engine makes Cannon Spike punishable I think, just dash once blocked. I have to experiment because I just thought of this now.
Against T Hawk you are free to each other, it sounds weird but that’s how it is. Juri can keep T Hawk out with the Fuhajins, learn how to predict if he will jump and use Ex Condor Dive (which goes through fireballs, such bullshit in my opinion). The good thing is, when blocked, you’re still mid screen so you can continue zoning. Just don’t get corner. Feng Shui Engine dash under his condor dives.
High fuhajin hits regular condor Dives, and close condor spires. EX condore spire is not projectile invincible as far as I know. Ex fuhajins are super useful in case he tricks you into releasing your fuhajin early, you can shit out an EX without the need to charge. Though you can beat condor dives with the KICK portion as well, its hard but doable.
If he gets in, jesus christ you are fucked. do whatever you can to get away because frame traps don’t work on T Hawks grabs unless I’m doing them wrong. If he turtles, then that’s great. Just chip him, no need to get in.
Against Guile all i have is that you can do the fuhajin KICK to dispel sonic boobs and release a low one, that at least lets you retaliate from mid screen. don’t even bother trying to dive Kick the sonic booms on reaction, what works better is a jump and a sorta late dive kick, when you KNOW he’s about to do it. Also it might be cool to experiment with countering after blocking a close sonic boom, since Guiles always do the back hand/sweep. Also learn to absorb the second sweep and focus attack for an ultra kill.


#19

Listen to this, very sage advice.

Juri should try to provoke, never truly rush in like a Rufus or Yun player might.