How do you go against people who are Just Defense Addicts!


#1

AHHH!!! I got my ass owned today because i couldnt figure out how to stop some 1 who JD’s everything you throw at them!!!
I tried fakes but they only worked every now and then. I know i cant stay still cause then they will gain all the momentmum.
If anybody has any tips or very good strats plz help!!!
BTW- the team i used was A-groove
Dan(yes i know that was a bad choice but he was whoopin some major ass and hes fun to play!!!) :lol:
Hoamaru
Bison

Thank you!!!
:smiley:


#2

well i dont know much about dan , but lets talk about a shoto.

now k groovers practice this, JDing a dragon punch in the air. what to do? instead of using a HP SRK try a jab or a strong punch shoryuken, this way, if they defend it, they float up in the air and it will give you enough time to land and do another one to witch they are vulnerable to scince they wont see it coming because they expect to land and combo your ass, but you were smart and used a jab version, so you already landed while there still in the air, so you make another DP but this time a HP version and pownzore their asses!!!

ok any ways, dont always use HP and if their JDing, then just grab them…


#3

Pick Cammy. Get in and mash fierce. They might JD the first two hits, but you’ll recover before them. Just keep mashing away. You can also throw them.


#4

shoshosho that shit


#5

lol dan, i use him occasionaly too. he has a decent cc goin for him at least.

the characters u chose make it pretty hard to play against k-groove (besides bison).

but it seems like u still want to stick with em, so i’ll try to help…

i’m also a jd whore myself, and if there is one thing jd’ers are susceptible to, it’s throws. ur gonna have to empty jump and take a couple risks if u decide to go after them when they’re down. if they jump at you, and they’re decent at jd’ing, u should anti air them with normals. u’ll be on the ground the whole time, and u’ll recover quick enough so they can’t retaliate after jd’ing. if they jd ur anti air normal, either do the normal again (better chance to hit if u time it differently), or try to fake it, and go for a throw when they land. (crap, u have haomaru, his fierce anti air might take too long…so does dan’s!!)

another thing they might be susceptible to are high-low games. like if ur gonna cross up, don’t do an air attack and go low immediately when u land.

with bison u shouldn’t have that tough of a time. ur gonna be using his scissors kick quite a bit, and they’re probly gonna be looking to jd that. sometimes while keeping ur distance throw out cr.rh’s. most likely they’re gonna be trying to jd the scissors by jd back instead of d/b, so u might catch em once in a while. at any rate if u combo his scissors kick, u can just hit the normals to see if they jd it, and if they don’t, go for the kick.

also, bison’s j.mp helps, since it hits twice. of course they can jd it, but u’ll be safe.

ok to be honest, i’m not sure if hao and dan are good in this groove, since their cc’s are harder to land and stuff, so ur already at a kind of disadvantage… i use kyo and sakura in a groove, so goin up against k-groovers is almost like heaven. anyhow, good luck…


#6

alright after playing a J/D whore for practically EVER here are the tricks I have come up with

when there jumping in

bait a two in one that usually wont combo

an example is a jab xx anti air special. this works for a little while until they start J/Ding the two hit ness of it but you can use this as a gimmick for occasional jump stuffing

or

use moves that are horrible anti airs with wierd hit boxes

an example of this would be hwous standing mediam punch. this move comes out slower then most anti airs and goes out straight instead of up forcing them to have to J/D late

this however is also a gimmick but its useful for mind games

3 things to NEVER go for when there jumping in

a single hitting uppercut of ANY strength level as this will bounce them up high enough to counter you or start the chain over again allowing them to J/D again leaving you right back where you started

wait for them to land and throw is bad because any decent K player will option J/D and this just gives them a free combo since they will be attacking

a tiger uppercut. this is bad cause EVERYONE whores sagat and that give ANY decent K player the exp needed to J/D a whole tiger uppercut and punish you SEVERLY afterwards

also if your jumping in and sitting on a level three with sagat or sakura you can do the hot foot

this is basically baiting a J/D with deep jumping attack and then buffering straight to there low hitting supers. they are stuck in the standing block stun and are unable to block the attack

another neat trick is to use a meaty poke with fast recovery for a free throw. if you use the poke as a meaty and they J/D it you get a free throw

good examples of this are cammys close hp and shotos cr mp

make sure its very meaty though or they will be able to tech you out of it

they can always super you out of that but of course these are very obvious moves that shouldnt be used as a get up to someone sitting on a level 3 anyway^_^

BTW these are mostly gimmicks and should only be used till there figured out and then only once MAYBE twice a match after so


#7

jd’ing too much is the sign of a scrub. get close and throw him. simple as that. with a lot of close up attacks, jd doesn’t give you much, if any, advantage. now if you’re throwing out attacks from too far away, i suggest you stop. you’re making it easy for him to build meter and potentially land a nasty super. and even if he’s king jesus in heaven at jd’ing, i’ll bet a million bucks he won’t be able to do much if you take it easy with predictable pokes. i’m not trying to be a smart ass btw. it just seems that the only time a k player can pull that stuff is if the opponent makes it easy.


#8

heh

dude J/Ding is easy once you get it down

and there are some people who CAN J/D anything whether you are predictable or not you just havent played a good J/Der

you may have played a good K player but a good J/Der isnt necissarrily the same thing

it may seem that this sounds contradicting but in alot of ways its tru


#9

Ive played the same guy driz is speaking of. He can pretty much jd anything you throw out. Predictable or not, 7 out of 10 times its getting jd’d. You just have to find ways around it thats all. Im not that great and i still beat the guy most times we play. That should prove that jd is good, but not overpowering.


#10

:lol: , i really really really hope u were being sarcastic.


#11

He’s serious, and I agree with him. If you JD my Ryu c.LP, I still have the frame advantage. If you JD instead of anti-airing when I jump in, I’ll combo you low.

If you depend on empty jumping in, then mashing on air JD to try and start your offense, you’re a scrub. Some counters are walk or run under, then going low; using an anti-air that leaves you completely safe against JDs such as Cammy s.HP, Ryu far s.HK, or Honda s.HP (note: Hibiki far s.HP is NOT a JD safe anti-air, but canceled close s.HP or d.HP is); and using an unorthodoxed (and difficult to JD) anti-air, such as Sakura’s dp+MP.


#12

I use Vega, Mai, Cammy… airthrow them when they try to empty jump. Other characters with airthrow:

Guile!!
Ken
Athena
Chun


#13

VS ground you can slightly delay your attacks to help stop JD. Kinda simple but hear me out.

Your opponent will probably set up JD situations, and weave it into his attack patterns.

Let’s say you get an opportunity to attack during attacks strings, so your opponent does JD attempt, then possibly attacks afterward. If you attack, he gets JD. If you don’t, he continues pressure with attack.

If your opponents are doing this, you can slightly delay YOUR attack so you hit AFTER his JD attempt, but before his next possible attack. Your attack doesn’t get JDed, and you could possibly hit him out of HIS attack (if he does indeed attack). If he doesn’t, it’s usually normal blocked.

A good K-groove player will always weave empty JD’s into his game at certain points. If you can pick these points you can try to take advantage of it.

Let’s say you knockdown your opponent with little to no life in the corner. You have meter and want to chip them to death. Sit around sweep distance. Fearing chip, the opponnent will most likely try to JD when they get up (and then counter-throw/poke). If you slightly delay your poke AFTER they try to JD you’ll get d.MK into super which they can’t JD and chip for the win. Or you might hit their after-JD-poke. If they tried to reversal DP or something instead, you would most likely block it. It’s not perfect, but a tactic to play against JD.

or you could time a lvl3 super and try to get the super to “spark up” right before they get up, “freezing” their JD time making it harder.

Some JD situations are very obvious so you have to try to mix it up.


#14

What i find that works is not to play offensive.Turtle up and let them come to you.Since you use A groove bait him into attacking activate cc him.

Dont end up playing his game.If you do change it up alot throw intead of doing a move he thinks is coiming.If its really that bad play for time.That should make him offensive.


#15

well I just talked to the J/D abuser that I was refering to in my posts

and hes what I consider someone who has masterd just defense

in practice all of these delaying and attacks and walk up throws are gimmicks

they will work a few times and stop when the player catches on

as a matter of fact the delaying move thing dosent work at ALL agasint him since he has flat out told me how he just defends

character animations

this in my opinion is impossible (he can reaction J/D ALL of cammys standing pokes) bubt it is what he does

all this being unpredictable agasint a truly good just defender is kinda worthless IMO

and I’m not gonna say I know beat all strats agasint a good K player

cause gimmicks work for a while but when you have played someone for about a 1 year your patterns start getting owned

I would really like to know some universal patterns that are good agasint a J/Der besides gimmicks cause I rely on them to win WAY to often agasint said player


#16

Thanks to everybody for the tips…yeah now that i read all the stuff everybody said i saw where i was messing up badly…:frowning:
What i learnd from everbody is to mix up your attacks and change the timing of your pokes this should really help out my Haomaru…and another thing i messed up on was that i was always on the offensive…that is my main problem im overly aggressive which isnt a bad thing all the time but against a Kgroover it is…and not to mention that was my second day using A-groove…and thanks vigilante when i was turtleling he hesitated a bit but then started to attack so what u told me about waiting and then activating the CC should work…
and despite what everybody has about me using Dan…well i think hes just to funny to play and if some one gets their ass-whooped by him thats pretty embarresing especially if their using top-tiers but i might pick up Rock or Kyo for some back up…

Thanks again to everyone for all the tips they helped alot!!!:smiley:

BTW…DANS THE MAN!!!


#17

I haven’t seen anyone play k-groove like that for a very very very long time. The people i play against know when to jd and when to block. Not all k-groove players jump (just saying that since those are the examples u gave.) I should try to get a vid of one of my friends playing k, he jd’s just about everything and is very rarely left at a disadvantage. That all comes from not being a scrubby k player and knowing when it’s smart to jd. Not all people who jd everything are scrubby, i thought u would know better than that. Unless u haven’t played against good k players, which i highly doubt.


#18

Trip Guard… The end…


#19

jd’ing everything is bad for a k groove players health. it’s a fact. now obviously there are a lot of variables such as what attack you’re jd’ing or even the distance you’re doing it from. but on the whole, when you’re in close, you have to be very careful what you do. 1 wrong jd can really shift the balance of the match. jd isn’t parry. you aren’t always guaranteed advantage of the situation. cammy is the perfect example. her fp’s can annoy even the best k players because you never have an opening to attack even if you jd.

playing k well takes a lot of skill imo. you have to have a real knowledge of other characters attacks to be able to counter them effectively with jd. otherwise, you’ll end up eating throws or putting your opponent in the perfect position to combo your ass.


#20

btw, i’m a k player myself. i know the strengths and weaknesses of k pretty well. and there are very few times i’ll cag a jd. but on the whole, i’ll block most attacks that are done up close. i’d rather take a little guard damage to get myself in a better position to mount an offense.