How does frame data work as it relates to linking combos


#1

im having a hard time understanding frame data as it relates to linking combos

like how do u do most combos when most of the moves leave u at a frame disadvantage


#2

If a move leaves you at a disadvantage on hit, it most likely can’t be linked.

If a move is say… +5 on hit, and you want to link a move that has a 3-frame startup, you have 3 frames to do it.
So say you’re linking two of an attack that has a 3-frame startup and a +5 on hit, and you want to link that twice…
the first attack hits and gives you five frames to continue combos. That same attack has a 3-frame startup, so you have a 2-frames of buffer to hit that attack PLUS the last…
so to explain a bit further…

You get the +5.
3 frames to start up.
You can use frames 1,2,3 of that +5; 2,3,4; OR 3,4,5.
So you have a decent window.

If the attack gives you a +5 and has a 5-frame startup, you have a 1-frame link, meaning you have to hit it at exactly the precise time to have it come out and attack, as all of the +5 must line up with the 5 frames of the startup.

Make sense?

FYI - this DOES NOT include “active” frames and recovery frames.

If you give me some frame data, I’ll break it down more precisely for you.


#3

If an attack starts up in fewer frames than your last attack gives you advantage, than you can link it.

The less advantage or the slower the attack, the tighter the link.


#4

so say ok i want to do this combo

cr.mp > cl.hp > MK Ryusokyaku > cr.lp/cr.mp xx LK Tatsu > Shoryuken xx FADC > HP Red Fireball = 395/597

now they want u to link cr mp > to > clp

but cr mp on hit is 5+ and the start up for cl hp is 5 i don’t have the frame data for ryusokyaku the lk tatsu startup is 11

i was wondering can u link a previous move regardless of on hit or on block

like linking cr mp cl hp with lk tatsu even though lk has a startup of 11

and can u tell me about on block and how it is useful


#5

make sure you are looking at the frame data on hit, not block. lots of things are negative on block

if the 1st move causes more hitstun than the recovery of the first move plus the startup of the second, it can link

random made up example:
-The first move causes 15 frames of hitstun and has 6 frames of recovery
-the next move you want to link into has 8 frames of startup

6+8 = 14
15 frames of hitstun is greater than 14, so you can link the two attacks


#6

im looking at the frame data on event hubs i don’t see any attacks with a higher number then most of the recovery frame data

i think this is wrong or maybe im reading this wrong.


#7

The c.mp > c.lp in your example is a 1-frame link. 5 frames of recovery + 5 frames of startup = 0, so it’s a 1-frame link. The startup must be equal to (which is a 1-frame link) or less than the recovery to link.

Regardless of what the lk tatsu is in that example, if the startup is 11f, as long as the hit stun is greater, it’s fine, as you’re cancelling c.hp into it, rather than linking it. A different set of arithmetic is applied there.

On block vs. On hit:
On hit gives you your frame data if they don’t block it. For “on block” it’s good for creating block strings. You don’t, for example want to poke in 3S with a c.hk if you’re a shoto, as there’s a lot of recovery and not a lot of blockstun. If I throw a c.hk to any shoto and they’re not at maximum distance, they can counter a blocked c.hk with a c.hk every time. There’s worse examples… eating a Chun SA2 is one, for example.
On hit is what you use to make combos.
On block is what you use to know what you want to end block strings and pressure games with.


#8

so in other words it would be best to link cr lp into cl hp instead of cr mp into cl hp


#9

I guess? Use the frame data and figure it out because TBH - I don’t know shit about SF4 (assuming that’s what you’re talking about), but the principles of frame data works across all of the games. I play Super Turbo and MvC2…
But just from knowing about SF games, c.mp > c.hp, I’d assume does substantially more damage. I think the combo my friend does is something like c.lk, c.lp, c.mp, c.hp xx lk tatsu… and it hurts.


#10

now what about jumping attacks im looking at the advantage on hit and i don’t see anything for advantage on block or on hit


#11

i still don’t get it because one dude in here was talking about recovery frames having something to do with linking combos

and im saying to myself i thought it was about on hit stuff can somebody explain this to me


#12

Hitstun - recovery frames = frame advantage

frame advantage from first move - startup of second move = leniency of link

It’s all math.


#13

If you still have questions, another user wrote this awesome frame data guide. It should explain everything you need to know.


#14

The best video explanation for this.

[media=youtube]B4GeG24aWbw[/media]

Other videos of interest -

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[media=youtube]IBgfAeAY4TA[/media]


#15

You wont for jumping because the amount of frames they have fluctuate depending on when you do the attack… A super deep attack has a different amount of frames than if you hit it as soon as you jump


#16

how does recovery factor in when trying to link combos


#17

Try rereading the answers given to you. It was already directly explained a few times.


#18

Let’s start here…

1+1 = ?
2-1 = ?
3x2 = ?
4/2 = ?

Figure those out… Come back, and see if you can figure out the rest of it.


#19

props ive figured it out props to everybody for helping