How does hit stun deterioration work?


#1

I am no noob at this game, but I am trying to get a better understanding of the hit stun deterioration mechanic so I can extend combos better. For example, do heavy normals cause more hit stun than lights? How does hit stun work with TACs? Does it completely reset the air hit stun? And are there different hit stuns for air and ground? I assume that special moves affect hit stun differently, but is the based on the number of hits on the special move?

If anyone could answer some or all of these questions, or even give a full explanation of hit stun, that would be great! Thanks.


UMvC3 Weekly Challenges for Beginning/Intermediate Players!
-= Time affecting hit decay =-
Understanding the Combo Mechanics
#2

You kinda answered your own questions. Just keep track of the number of hits in a combo, the more number of hits and the easier it is for the opponent to recover. But there are certain moves that deteriorate your combo potential alot like wesker’s rhino charge. Normally you would be able to hit his magic series from an opponents neutral position to level 3, but if you rhino charge then it’s not gonna connect from his magic series unless you use his wall bounce then into level 3.


Marvel 101: The UMVC3 Basics Thread
#3

It doesn’t


#4

what doesn’t?


#5

No, it does.


#6

before someone calls me out for my explanation I just thought I’d let you know this is vanilla wesker that I’m talking about and something i picked off of cross counter. If wesker’s level 3 truly doesn’t connect off of a magic series in ultimate that’s simply because I don’t play him to know much about the character.


#7

Where is DuckStrong and No99 at?

They pretty much had the legitmate theory on how it works. To understand a bit better, watch these two videos…

Classic Science experiment is when Doom does not decide to do the combo as fast as possible.

Now watch this video in comparison where he does the combo as fast as possible, and he gets more hits than usual. Notice how he got more of bang for his buck regardless of the missiles.

Therefore the conclusion was that HSD is a timer that slowly eat hitstun from moves.The general rule of the is the faster you do a combo, the more likely that it will connect. This rule only apply to hitstun that can be decreased by the HSD. Certain types of Hitstun cannot be decreased by the timer, this is one of the reasons why infinite do exist in this game. For example Nova’s Centurtion Rush overhead will ALWAYS do a ground bounce.


#8

I figured I was answering my own questions, but I just wanted to make sure. For example, when watching vids such as Dr. Doom’s TAC air combos, some of them seem like they completely ignore hitstun all together, or that they go way past the hit stun mark that they should. So I am curious to a little more detail on hitstun.

I posted this right after u posted above me ^^ , ill take a look at those links. Thanks!


#9

Hey

I have also been recently looking into this, and I’m going to explain this to you the same way it was explained to me the best I can. I’m by no means an expert , and I will likely miss some aspects of the system, but I’m learning just like you so I hope I at least provide some form of new knowledge.

In UMVC3 there is a Hit Stun Timer. The timer starts as soon as the first hit of your combo begins. I’m not exactly sure if the counter counts up or counts down. My gut tells me it counts down, but the direction isn’t very important. The timer momentarily stops every time a new attack actually lands. Some attacks completely stop the counter until the next successful hit. These attacks are, but not limited too : Wall Bounces, Ground Bounces, Soft Knock downs, Crumples. Some attacks have fixed amount of hit stun no matter what, I believe Dr. Strange’s Impact Palm is an example of this, 35 frames? I’m still not sure what the state of the timer is during this scenario. My gut tells me that it freezes as well, and if a new move isn’t registered by the time its over they recover. Some moves supposedly affect the decay timer negatively. I say supposedly because I haven’t quite figured it out yet. For example, Thor’s Mighty Smash is supposedly pretty bad towards hit decay. What I’m not sure about is if , this move actually adds time to the counter as a property of hitting it? or is it just bad because its kind of a long move with alot of start up and active frames, those frames are opportunities for the timer to keep running.

So this means a few things 1) How fast you do your combos is a heavy factor. The longer you can pause the timer the better. 2) Doing moves that completely freeze the timer for later in the combo will be the most beneficial.

There is still alot I don’t know, i’m hoping to learn it soon tho. Hope this helps


#10

Oh yeah doesn’t skullgirls actually show the hitstun bar when practicing combos? I remember watching it once. Another reason to buy skullgirls :smiley:


#11

read the thread title… read my response


#12

Thank you, this is indeed very helpful!


#13

So I have it all wrong in thinking that there is a set amount of hitstun that just gets worse with more hits added in?

I had it in my head that some attack types in particular (ground/wall bounces) knocked off large chunks of hitstun, whereas some add to it (upwards TACs). ]

Thoughts?


#14

For those curious what assist are immune or not to HSD…this chart is useful.


If it says yes, nobody how long you are in the combo. If it connects, it won’t decay.
If it says no, it’s not immune to HSD.


Unblockable Funny Face Crusher resets: level 3 and 4/5
#15

Wow. That is amazing thanks. And as I figured, I am pretty sure alot of other people have questions regarding hit stun deterioration so feel free to ask other questions. I am sure there are a few I haven’t asked.


#16

Yeah I thought the same too. It would seem reasonable if every hit had some sort of hitstun value it would prevent combo from becoming infinites but I guess I got to the wrong train of thought.


#17

Every hit does have a set hit stun value, both an initial and a minimum. That value just has nothing to do with the rate of decay, which is simply done via timer after the combo starts. TACs, in any direction, reset and suspend hit stun decay until either character touches the ground again.


#18

This is my theory on how hitstun deterioration works. I do not come prepared with videos to support my case, but with past experiences and extensive labbing. Bear in mind that this is all speculation, but that it is speculation with some in-game evidence to back it up.

First of all, HSD is a timer. From the very first hit of the combo, it is activated and begins ticking downward. Every move has a base hitstun value and a minimum hitstun value. As the timer ticks downward, the moves slowly transition from their base value to their minimum value. The minimum value for each move differs from move to move, but I believe the lowest value of any move is 4 frames. I could be wrong, though. That is the system in a nutshell; a timer that decreases a move’s hitstun as it nears zero. It seems really simple, and that’s because I haven’t started discussing the different factors that affect the timer.

As you may know, all the timers in the game, be it for X Factor or powerup hypers, freeze momentarily when the person using the timer lands a hit. I call this the Timer Freeze Property. This property also applies to the HSD timer, from what I can tell. Although it’s hard to create a test that tells for sure, it makes logical sense and it seems to pop up a bit in the game when people delay their moves too much.

The next interesting property is that, from what I can tell, a certain amount of time is re-added to the HSD timer when the opponent is launched, and a flying screen occurs. This theory has great merit to it; one who regularly plays Doctor Strange can relate to this property quite well. You see, in Strange’s Air Impact Palm loops, there comes a point where if you try to do Jumping MMH xx Impact Palm just one more time, they fall out. If you launch them, however, the Jumping MMH xx Impact Palm works again.

Now, before HSD was fully explored, the common argument against this theory was that the flying screen HSD and regular HSD were separate. However, with some tricky timing, Strange can do an entire combo without launching, and when he finally does launch, his air series will not work. This can be verified with many other characters, too, making the theory presumably valid.

Something that I haven’t quite figured out the details of are the way special opponent states affect the HSD timer. From what I have observed, however, I can guess that the HSD timer never stops running, and that not even special states alter the flow of the timer. In several combos with groundbounce starters, I’ve found that the timer definitely continues running during bouncing states. It also definitely continues running during hard knockdowns, and soft knockdowns mark the end of a combo. That leaves two special opponent states that I haven’t figured out.

•Crumple state
•Special hitstun state

A special hitstun state is a state where the opponent is placed in some sort of fixed or mechanically different hitstun, such as a spinning knockdown or the fixed hitstun caused by Strange’s Air Impact Palm. It is unknown whether or not the timer runs during these states, but I firmly believe that it does. Sadly, I have no evidence to support this except for experience with combos. As for crumple states, I believe it runs there as well, although it may run slower than normal.

Finally, TAC’s affect hitstun in some way that I cannot exactly tell. I know the amount of hitstun the incoming character has to work with is proportionate to the length of the original character’s combo, but the extent of this is unknown. Upon a TAC, the HSD timer is temporarily reset to a given amount, where it appears to stay until the new character lands. Once the new character touches the ground, the HSD timer is set to the original time, minus the time of the entire combo. That’s what I can tell. In case you weren’t aware, a TAC also puts the opponent into a soft knockdown. I’m sure you knew that, though.

Also, this goes without saying. The following moves are never affected by HSD, despite the fact that the timer keeps running.

•Soft Knockdown
•Hard Knockdown
•Wallbounce
•Groundbounce
•Crumple
•Spinning Knockdown
•Fixed hitstun
•Sequences in which moves hit more frequently than once every four (?) frames

That pretty much wraps up my knowledge of HSD.


Hitstun Deterioration Is Affected By Time Too
#19

just to verify: the opponent is put in exactly 35 (I believe) frames of hitstun whenever Impact Palm lands. this is also the case with uncharged Flames of the Faltine. this move also ignores hitstun deterioration and also places the opponent in a constant number of frames on hit. the only reason why the Palm xx Flames infinite does not work outside of X-Factor is because the 18 frames needed for Strange to recover offsets the hitstun (and +3 frame adv) of FoF. if I had to hazard a guess, I’d say it’s somewhere between 10-15 frames.

oh, and speaking of which… you’ll want to check the combo thread. we’re definitely on to something there. Strange’s damage is going to skyrocket soon. :wink:


Ultimate MVC3 Strategies/News Guide. UPDATE: Viper's S cancel infinite, Chrisis vs. Champ FT10
#20

Amazing post, Cougar. So since you say that the lowest hitstun amount you can get is ~4 frames, does that mean if I can put a standing jab at the end of my combo, I can always cancel it into a snapback that will hit (all snapbacks have 2 frame startup)?