How does MOV do it?


#1

Vision, he could see EVERYTHING, his mind was never focused on just one particular counter, for example.

Ken vs Ken

If he thought I was going to lowforward he was ready to reverse super it on block, I took this into consideration and dashed instead because I thought he would be focused on that due to my past tendacies, nope, he strong fierced SRK’d my dash on reaction. I tested this theory against him and tried jumping and he reaction jump back parried it, followed by a lowforward to see if he truly was processing every damn aspect of the screen and he reversal superd it.

If im looking to reversal super say a lowforward or st.rh theres no way I’ll be able to spot a dash because it’s hard enough to fixate on reacting to the poke, how does he see 3 aspects of screen at once… next level shit? or am I just slow at learning this aspect of the game.


#2

he just knew the options for the situation at the highest level, thats the reason why he is one of the strongest players in the world next to Kuroda


#3

I know the options, from him obviously, haha. But I cant process all of them that quickly, it’s very very hard to play that solid and he does it effortlessly, I can’t imagine the countless hours hes practiced.

Edit: even trying to train that, trying to see jump/dash and pokes at the same time is super fucking tedious for me, I need a better way to practice… lol


#4

super human MOV


#5

OS, maybe?


#6

he can do it because he spends 17 hours a day practicing the game. do you???


#7

hes just in an other level, anyone can acheive that.


#8

Anyone???


#9

Think about it, its really not that amazing. If you spend enough time, seeing that low forward blocked must become so familar, that a reversal super becomes second nature. A dash is just something hes see hundreds of times, so strong fierce SRK is just an obvious response.

With enough time, its easy. Especially since SF is ALWAYS the same. A low forward will be the exact same animation, its not like reacting to a real attack or anything.


#10

yah, he has 10 years+ in the game. However, at the same time he’s just a smart dedicated player. Not to many people are THAT dedicated. People are fine with a couple of hours here and there. MOV strives for perfection.


#11

true…you DO become stronger and stronger with each match you play (or should be anyways) and the more you play the more things you can “see” and catch certain patterns from players.

This is another reason 3S is so great. you can NOT do the same patterns over and over to good/ decent players. I have had some players tell me they were going to mix it up more now just because I was catching what they were doing and counter attacking the patterns.


#12

Wrong. You gain nothing from a player that doesn’t adjust correctly or know the right options to counter with. Playing someone that will adjust to your game or playing with the intent to practice something is the only way to get stronger from casuals.

@xplasma - I don’t know how long you’ve been playing 3s, or if you’re even good… but the timing is strict with cr.lowforward reversals, and there’s a certain distance you can only reversal st.rh. So you have to understand your placement, while ready to react to a poke, while ready to react to a dash, while ready to react to jump, while ready to react to a fake. Understanding the game so well is not easy, or we would see everybody in Japan doing this consistently, who are leagues above us.

Edit: while taking all these things into consideration, you have to be moving with the player so you can space him correctly as to not get randomly poked, as the goal is to counter poke.

Edit #2: xplasma: Join Date: 04-03-2010

-.-


#13

The simple answer is experience.

at certain ranges ken only has x amount of options that he can cause damage. though the timing for getting reversal sa3 from a lowfoward is strict i still find it pretty easy to preform but to gauge the issue’s you are discussing we’d have to see what happened. alot of things i’ve noticed at least from american players is they only focus on options A and B, when there is still a C and D waiting for them. in cr.foward range as ken i look for dash ins or any move because at that range you can reversal super anything ken throws out that is a kick. basically what i’m saying is that in an exchange at that range getting reversal’s isn’t as hard in my opinion as you are looking for them to toss out a normal or dash up throw or shortx2 or something of that nature.

In 3rd strike i’ve noticed that there is one universal set of rules, that i learned and abide by from a few players and that is 1.Block low 2.Tech throws 3.React high, learning to use this will help your defensive game enormously the second thing i learned to do is punish well but this doesn’t really relate to the situation at hand.

Metric now that you’re in seattle, cole still plays 3rd strike occasionally, but after that i think mechanica is the next best 3rd strike player you should get in touch with them for some matches and if you’re ever in the portland area you can always hit up fatbear,tajiri or i for some games pm me and i’ll give you our info.


#14

My bro Mike Z says it’s about anticipation, but I think some ppl are just really good at keeping cool under pressure, and their brains are capable of reacting faster than what is considered “normal”, so they’re basically INSANE!!!

From what I’ve gathered, when players say something is hit-confirmable (a link or not), it means you have a certain # of cancelable frames to cancel from a normal to a certain super (dif start-up frames for supers) that most people would say players are expected to need in order to know whether to cancel or not. I suppose what ALSO helps is how the animation looks after getting hit by certain attacks, or which characters are getting hit, or some other reason, etc.

Furthermore, when someone tries to trip up someone like MOV by doing something really weird, he possibly is able to distinguish between something unorthodox and effective, and something silly and useless, and knows how to deal with both scenarios accordingly and quickly.


#15

I can answer this, I used to theory about this a lot about a year and a half ago.

Anticipation is key.

I can give an example. When I play Ken vs Ken, my 2nd best matchup, versus most opponent players, I can easily punish dash ins with strong fierce, or if they low forward, I can reversal or if they jump, I can parry jump ins. This is because my anticipation tells me from previous matches that this is all the player can do, as in this is opponent players whole offense, if I limit this, they can’t win. Therefore, anticipation plus key word COMMITMENT. I commit to standing in dash distance, and I wait for either low forward, dash, or jump. Players always think, “Yi has really good reflexes, he can punish dash ins”. No my reflexes are average to above average at best, but my anticipation plus committing at right times make my reflexes look fast.

However, versus a better player, for example, Vinny is the best I’ve seen at reversaling low forward, but he can never reversal my low forward. He’s thinking about my other offensive moves that I do. Versus not as good Kens, I see him reversal every low forward. When I played MOV Ken Ken, he did not reversal every low forward or punish all my dashes. There are options to make players stop looking for it, but I won’t go into detail because I am keeping the community at a low level.

Assuming both players are capable of doing what I just mentioned, reversal SA3, punish dash in or punish jump in, the best option would be to walk forward slide back throw with Ken. (Of course in a high level matchup, this should not work more than 2 times, so don’t be satisfied with just this response, and I only know 1 other player in America who plays at this level). This only works at high level, as both players are respecting the other players ability, so they won’t hit a button knowing it’ll get reversaled, or they won’t dash knowing it’ll get punished.

A good player has many more ways of getting in then just dash, low move or jump. When I first theorized about this, I could only commit to 1 option, for example looking for the low forward but I would get hit by dash throw. Now I am able to multi commit. I think MOV can commit to maybe 3-5 different defensive options based on opponent player.

Oh yes, Denjizz is right, he practices very hard. And no, not everyone can achieve this.


#16

Ah, that makes more sense, that’s really scary the can defend 3-5 different options, considering he can probably do this with character specifics and I can’t even do it with my best match-up. I remember the only thing working on MOV was simply walking forward or making him think I was just going to play slow, and if I did that he would just walk back and wait for me to make my move, such a wall. I was always under the impression that dashing was a bad idea, but you made really good use of it in SBO quals and recently Kuroda was dashing like crazy @ SBO quals and nobody seemed to adjust to it. Kind of had a new perspective, and started trying to dash when least expected or reactive dash short short after a whiffed poke if I couldn’t react and counter-poke.

And yeah, Vinny made me want to master reversals, he was doing it all day at Sunroute. MOV was the only person I seen till this day reversal super UOH on reaction, haha.


#17

I only have time for 1-2 hours on GGPO at the very least, Microsoft has me working 10-12 hours every day, crunch time. I haven’t played offline since Sunroute, I’d be down once work slows down. :slight_smile:


#18

I don’t understand? Why does when I made an account on a forum have any indication of me as a player. I have an account I made at the end of 2007 and start of 2009 if that makes me any more legit …

Anyway, including what I said before, a good player notices your options as well as his. Can see if your trying to train him into thinking something, or your what your best option will be.

But like with most things, there is a counter to the counter, and some players will be able to mix-up the unmix-up-able ;D


#19

Because SF4 brought in a new player base filled with people who love to share their opinion when they know nothing. Generally the 09/10’ers, plus you have the SF4 online match making avatar, just assumed you were new. Anyway, I wonder when we’ll see MOV again in the US… :smiley:


#20

just practice more metric and buy a shiny jacket, also make it out to more 3s events