How does seeding work? (move if needed)


#1

I’ve been wondering for a while now how seeding works, since I keep hearing about it at all of my local tournies, but never understood how it’s determined, or what it decides. It seems like a simple idea, but I just never had someone say, “Hey, here’s what seeding does…” If someone could just give me a run-down, that would be greatly appreciated, since I would like to run games at tournies in the future, and want to make sure I’m doing it right.

Also, if this is in the wrong section, or if there’s a thread already for this, close/nuke this at will.


#2

from my understanding, seeding places all the good players away from each other in differesnt brackets. They usually have an easier time during the 1st part of the tourny.

I think everyone should be placed randomnly in a tournament and seed only through zip codes if its a major. but seeding out the supossed best and letting them have an easy ride to the top is not fair to some.


#3

If the 2 to 8 best players are all in the same side of the bracket and have to knock each other out to get to the top, how is that fair? That would seem to make it easier for everyone else. Seeding makes sense and is the better way, but only when there are set ways for figuring out who the best are.


#4

you kinda need to rank people off of past tournament results

Let’s say in an 8 man bracket you have a top 4 players already picked out, and then another 4 you don’t necessarily rank, you would do something like:

  1. 1st Ranked Player
  2. Some guy
  3. 4th Ranked Player
  4. Some guy
  5. 3rd Ranked Player
  6. Some guy
  7. 2nd Ranked Player
  8. Some guy

That way your top 2 as long as they beat everyone won’t face each other until the winners finals, The top ranked player will eventually play the 4th ranked player, probably giving him an easier time than he would have against the 3rd ranked player.

This is generally how I do it. That is why if I’m running a tournament I like to pay attention to past results.

Taking it even further, let’s say you have players from different areas come into play. Let’s say 2 people in the bracket are from one area, and the other 6 come from the other area. With some Priority you would want to put them as far away from each other as possible, while conforming to the seeding. So let’s say, using the example above you have 2 players from NORTH and the other 6 from SOUTH. Then you would have a bracket that looks more like this:

  1. 1st Ranked Player (SOUTH)
  2. Some guy (NORTH)
  3. 4th Ranked Player (SOUTH)
  4. Some guy (SOUTH)
  5. 3rd Ranked Player (SOUTH)
  6. Some guy (SOUTH)
  7. 2nd Ranked Player (NORTH)
  8. Some guy (SOUTH)

It can get more complicated from there obviously but this is the basic algorithm I followed when I made the 128 man soul calibur 4 bracket from SB3 last year. The tournament software that is available did almost all the work. I used results from about 20 different soul calibur 4 tournaments from around the country. However many changes needed to be made to separate the people from the same regions.


#5

It’s tough shit. Why should they get a free pass to the finals if the bracket is fair. Let’s take Gootecks’ bitching at Devastation '09 over the brackets. He played two of the top players in his pool and lost the tournament. Did he take it like a man and accept the loss? NO! He bitched and moaned over the fact that he wasn’t seeded like Justin Wong was. The tournament director shouldn’t fix the bracket so that a so called top player could have a free pass from the pools to the semis for a bullshit reason.

Top players make the effort to travel to all of the majors and DO WELL there. They earn their seeds, and if Gootecks had half the brain he would travel to the east coast and play in Final Round or Season Beatings to earn his seed just like everyone else.

No free pass for him.


#6

He did travel and got 1st at Sinsation, 2nd at Final Round XII, and 4th at East Coast Throwdown, just to correct you.


#7

didn’t he get like 2nd or 3rd at final round


#8

My point is that he doesn’t do it on a consistent basis.


#9

Let’s not turn this into a thread about him guys.


#10

Local should be by skill. majors by location. imo both with some minor randomization


#11

Seeding helps make for better matches when it comes to the finals. if top players are in pools against eachother, one will get sent to losers. If two are in losers, one goes out, period. If they’re seeded apart, it is a means to delay them from facing each other when they get toward the top. I don’t see it as a free ride at all.


#12

that’s because people can practice the game at home now and figured out how to play


#13

Double Elimination loser’s bracket even’s out the seeding. You’ll have some guy from pool 1 fight some guy from pool 2. Even if you get knocked out first round you’ll have the potential to rise back to the top if you’re good enough. Happens all the time.

Its unfair for players that aren’t good, but thats what tournaments are for in the first place.


#14

Cool, thanks guys for the info. :tup:

I guess I was mainly looking for a way to actually seed people, though the rest of it is good to know as well. Any other info is more then welcome!


#15

No problem. Seeding is actually the fairest way to do things. Unless you are some random scrub that wants it randomized so the top players might knock each other out before you have to play them. Which is why I always prefer random brackets. :slight_smile:


#16

Really location should take priority I’d think (nothing personal but I don’t see too many top players coming to an IL tourney that’s not MWC).


#17

phrostbyte?

the Game Stop scandal is hilarious.


#18

Technically with double elim, only the top 2 spots are “accurate”

If you want “100% accurate” top 3 results, you’re gonna need a triple elimination bracket.

For 100% accurate top 4, qual elim etc etc etc.

The funny part about “fairness” with making a bracket is that if you randomly make it, like, use numbers out of a hat, the players will totally complain that it’s rigged because two really good players will play early on, and an average player will prolly get a somewhat free bye to finals or whatever. To have a “fair” bracket, you actually need to rig it, which I find really funny.

Tho Im a fan of seeding by area and depending on the size of the tourney, seeding off of skill, but trying to essentially force certain players to make it without effort is kinda lame. It’s more interesting when the matches are closer, which I guess happens later in the tourney.