How does V-ISM work?


#1

I’ve been in a sort of dillemma of how V-ISM EXACTLY works & what happens during it. I know that you cancel some normals into special which you wouldn’t normally be able cancel (like Gief’s Standing HP), but the main thing I don’t understand is how the juggles & OTGs work.
Can someone care to explain (with examples if possible) on how V-ISM works?
Thanks. Oh and just for the record I HAVE used V-ISM a number of times in the past (and won a match or 2 with V-Karin).


#2

This wont be nearly as detailed as that FAQ above, but I’ll give it a shot. I still reccomend reading that FAQ by the way, it explains everything, but I’ll try and give it to you in lay man’s terms. There’s two main parts… Activation and mid VC.

Firstly, to get it out of the way, there are three different ways to activate. Jab & short, strong & forward and fierce & roundhouse. Which one you use determines how long it will take till the shaddow hits the opponent. The first being the soonest, second being inbetween and the last being the longest time.

You’ll unterstand what I mean if you play around. Different VCs require different activation so making sure you use the right one is neccisary. You’re also invincible during the first few frames of the activation, so you can use it when you’re being attacked. Depending on how much meter you have though determines how much invincibility you have, 100% being the most and 50% or lower being the least. Okay, moving on…

Every time you enter a neutral state, your opponent can recover. During a variable combo there are a few situations where you’ll enter one, but as long as you keep canceling everything properly (and your execution can hack it of course) it’ll work.

The idea is to use it’s laws to make one long patern that is the combo, without entering a neutral state… At all! Normals can be canceled with normals and specials as long as they hit, where as specials can be canceled with normals and specials, but only in the recovery.

You’ll notice during VCs people whiff moves a lot… This is because if they don’t they’ll enter a neutral state, the opponent can recover and the one string VC is broken. You need to have no holes at all to keep it going, this means using what ever you have, whether it be normals or specials to aproach or occupy time untill you can juggle them again.

There’s another law which activates when you hit the corner which is the corner juggle limit. When you and the opponent hit the corner, once you enter a neutral state (this means mid VC is cool because you avoid neutral states) you only get one more juggle. Once you juggle again, that’s it, they’ll fall to the floor.

Here’s a written example with Sakura. You activate with strong & forward and do a jab shoryu, which is the start of her vairiable combo. As soon as you land on the ground afterwards she is still in recovery, so you can cancel with a ground attack. You then want to cancel with back fierce, followed by a medium hurricaine to catch up to them. Once you land again you’ll be in recovery; you then want to repeat the process of back fierce x light hurricaine untill you hit the corner. Once you hit the corner, standing fierce and cancel to hadoken (cancel fierce with hadoken normaly, then cancel hadoken with fierce when the fireball has left her hands) untill you have around 5% meter left, when you finnish it with fierce, dp + hk, hk, hk.

Probably not explained the best of ways, but what the heck. Deffinatly read that FAQ, it’ll tell you everything you need to know, it’s a lot more descriptive than my weak ass attempt at an explination.


#3

Don’t think that’s quite right… I’m almost certain you can cancel specials into specials, although the “only during recovery period” portion is correct. Just last night I was screwing around in A3, and I managed to juggle the opponent in the corner with 3 or so consecutive butt slams using V-Honda, meaning he didn’t enter any neutral states between them.

Couple more things to add… normals can only chain into other normals when they connect (as DD said… note that “connect” means they can be blocked, too), but normals can cancel into specials at ANY time, even if they whiff.

The time on chaining normals into normals is variable, as well. Once a normal connects, it becomes chainable, and remains so until it ends. This means you can chain it as soon as it hits, or wait and chian later during its recovery.

Also, during a VC, special move thows (SPDs, etc.) can both grab out of hitstun, as well as grab opponents off the ground after they’ve been knocked down. The timing for OTGs is quite strict… I’m sure you’ve noticed that when aknocked down opponent first hits the ground they bounce, then hit the ground again and lie there for a very short time before standing back up. You always hear that characteristic THUD, thud. RIGHT after that second thud, during the short time they are lying still on the ground before getting up is when they are vulnerable to OTG command throws. Not while they’re bouncing, not while they’re getting up, but during the short period between the two. It takes quite a bit of practice to get the timing down.

You only have one special property while jumping during VCs, and that is you gain the ability to perform multiple atacks per jump. Once one finishes, you can “link” it into another.


#4

^You’re right, I edited my post.


#5

OK, thanks for the explanation I think i fully understand V-ISM now :tup:


#6

I still reccomend reading that FAQ. The reason I can explain it to you is because I’ve read the full thing my self. It is pretty long, but even as you read it the game becomes easier to understand and you almost instantly come up with ideas. You’ll undersatand it a lot more clearly if you do.


#7

(posting on friends comp right now)

Yes, you’re correct. But there are “other special rules”.

Just to recap, as best I can (sorry).

Normals. Normals can cancel into other normals only if they connect. But not all normals are like this. Some normals don’t allow you to cancel into another normal no matter what, such as Rolento’s c.RH or Guy’s oc.RH.

Normals that CAN be canceled can always cancel into a special at any point during the start-up or recorvery frames. Hit frames are special, those will like “remember” the input and will execute the normal/special at the first possible frame, but you can’t actually shorten hit frames.

Using the previos example of Rolento’s c.RH and Guy’s oc.RH – Rolento’s can be canceled into specials, but not normals, and Guy’s just can’t be canceled at all (I think).

Specials are very weird, they all have specific properties –

  • Some specials can’t be canceled at all, at any time, by anything.
  • Some specials can be canceled by other specials. And the ones that can are usually only cancelable during the recovery frames.
  • Some specials can be canceled by normals, but usually only during the recovery frames.
  • Projectiles can usually be canceled by anything during the recovery frames, but you can’t create multiple projectiles on the screen (unless your shadow creates it).

Examples of what I mean are like Guy’s qcb+P or Juli’s hcb+P can’t be canceled at all, ever, by anything.

Most of Karin’s specials can be canceled into other specials, but not canceled into normals.

Ryu’s qcf+P projectile can be canceled by normals and specials, but only during the recovery frames after the fireball has left his hand. Which brings me to my next point — Ryu can’t have two fireballs on the screen at the same time, but the shadow’s fireballs don’t really count toward that limit. Meaning he can throw a fireball that immediately leaves the screen, and while the shadow’s fireball is on the screen he can throw another. But, if he throws a fireball, he can’t throw another 'till it’s left the screen.

There are other rules, but that’s the jist AFAIK.

[Edit]: Oh, and the definition of “recovery” on specials is kind of blurry. Because some specials like Sodom’s qcf+P or Roses’ qcf+K can be canceled during the “recovery” even if they whiff, while other specials can only be canceled if they hit.


#8

OK, now I completely understand how V-ISM works; I just need to keep attacking and not pausing, shouldn’t be too tough, but DAMN that thread needs heck of some time to fully understand everything about A3’s combo system @_@