How important is frame data in faster games?

I know that frame data is VERY important in SSFIV:AE, but because Marvel is so fast is it AS important here too? I see that SFxT is going to be faster then AE so I guess the same question applies to that as well?

Its always important, usually it seperates people skill level by a lot by simply knowing what is punishable.

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Frame data is always important in the macro sense - what is punishable, what move can I mash when I’m slightly ahead/behind, what PUTS me slightly ahead/behind and that doesn’t change even if the moves are really fast or really slow. The point IS rendered somewhat useless when there’s a huge number of options with dealing with all that stuff/messing with the frames such as marvels pushblock and assists.

Not to mention practically every 95% of all unsafe moves in Marvel 3 can be cancelled into something else. I don’t know how many times I’ve done an unsafe Gamma Charge, repeatedly buffered the :qcb: input for Gamma Crush, and then pressed :atk::atk: the moment I see the opponent start to punish.

Awesome knowledge of frame data will give you a person who makes combo videos.
Moderate understanding of it is what you need to do well.

There is no knowledge that is not power.

The frame data itself has no importance. All you need to know is which moves are safe, which moves are combo-able and how far the moves can reach you. That is something you can learn on your own without a bunch of numbers. But if you prefer a bunch of numbers go for it.

Or just take the advice from the guy above me, even if it doesn’t make any sense, there is no knowledge that is not power, just repeat that to yourself and you’ll get better at the game.

Dude, the usefulness of this things really comes from… the usefulness. An example: I was messing around, yesterday, with Super (AKA Old) T. Hawk, in Super Turbo. Then I found that the standing Jab has some fast recovery, and I wondered if I could link it into another standing Jab. I kept trying for like half a minute, and eventually I could link it, for a two hit combo. Well, it is fricking hard to do, and there is not really any advantage of doing that instead of many other things the character has, such as cr.Jab into standing Jab, which is a simple cancel. So there it is, it is not useful. On the other hand, when I started playing SF2, I picked Chun Li, and eventually I found out that I could link her cr.Strong and cr.Fwd into basically anything. As it got to be easy with some training (and by then I did nothing but to play against my brother or the CPU over and over), it was useful. You do not need the frame data, but as Affable has - most appropriately - stated, knowledge does not hurt.

There is some Valle video around where he is sort of drunk and says that you do not need to know frame data, you just need to know what works and what doesn’t. And that comes from a guy who was also a great Tekken player, a game where many say frame data is very important. You should not trust that much the legions of recent people who repeat stuff they have not concluded themselves, shit like “Sanwas are perfect”, “it is all about frame data” and whatever. Just play, the daily rationing of beatings we get by facing other people teach more than anything else. If you see someone doing something you do not understand, just ask.

Knowing frame data saves you time.

You could spend several hours trying to figure out if you can safe-jump Yun’s ex upkicks, or punish his EX lunge, or you can just look it up.

hey well put

Yep, but your energy and focus could be better spent

Let’s be honest, whether it’s safe or not he’s just gonna Trollpalm all day. :wink:

Not so much as faster but different. Lets take SF4 and MvC3 for example, both games allow frame trapping so I guess frame data has some importance.

To be frank DOA4 is pretty much the only game that has a solid triangle system where attacks isn’t everything and it revolves around attack, counter and grab.