is this really that important? most of the time, players dont use half of their arsenal. i think if you just played enough, it comes pretty natural of knowing what moves has its advantages and disadvantages. besides what are the chances of anyone actually memorizing all the data? i hate math and all those numbers just gives me a headache.
No. Many players get by fine without knowing an iota of frame data. In fact, “playing by feel” was the only way to play the game before the internet and stuff like the Yoga Book Hyper.
Frame data IS useful for some tips, such as seeing how fast a certain move can come out to potential stuff other move attempts (Balrogs jab vs throw attempts come to mind). I don’t know jack about frame data, besides what is obvious (recovery frames), and that I pretty much determine by playing different matchups over and over. But I’m sure its useful in more ways than just that, but to me, its not crucial for understanding the game itself.
I wouldn’t say it’s useful to study it. Knowing the numbers alone won’t do jack for you. In fact if you were to quiz most players about frame data, they’d only know basic stuff … startup frames for common normals/specials, whether certain moves are safe on block. But how many recovery frames does Ryu’s c.FP have? Who cares?
The key is knowing how to apply the numbers. It is a handy reference for certain things, like “Can I link ____ and ____?” or “Is it possible to punish a blocked/whiffed _______ with _______?” But at the end of the day, time spent playing is more useful than time spent poring over frame data.
Frame data is useful if you want to figure out difficult combos… other then that, I don’t think it’s really that useful
It’s also useful for figuring out what punishes what
Delirium’s pretty much got it. Matchup experience is WAY more important than knowing the frame data.
Studying frame data is very important for working out what punishes what and also figuring out combos - however it’s not really required as you’ll find the majority of the leg work has already been done for you by others who have studied frame data, so you could just listen to what they have to say and go with that.
It’s good for fleshing out an understanding of a move after getting familiar with it in real play. If you have questions that can’t be easily answered ingame, like “is this not punishable, or am i just not timing it right?” or “is this really safe, or is the other guy just not punishing it for some reason?”, framedata comes in handy.
Yeah you don’t really even need to know the details, really. Learn your startup and frame advantage for your crouching attacks and specials/command normals and you should be set.It really depends on your character and playstyle though. Characters like T.Hawk or somebody definitely dont rely on frame data knowledge compared to a character like Rose, which is who I play. My entire gameplan revolves around knowing frame data,baiting counter-hits, doing many 1 frame links…everything is very mathematical for me.
99% of people don’t spend any significant amount of time studying frame data, and are content with that. I would say you won’t know how significant of a difference studying frame data will be for you until you actually do it.
It helps in specific matchup-related questions you might have, like what del1rium posted.
For example, as a Chun player, knowing that Ryu’s sweep is -14 on block (meaning it takes him 14 frames to recover, meaning he can’t do anything in those 14 frames after his sweep is blocked) makes me very comfortable punishing it with Ultra. Chun’s Ultra 1 starts up in 7 frames, so I have a pretty generous window of time where I can do the Ultra motion, even if my reactions aren’t perfect, and still land the Ultra against Ryu.
It also helps knowing what CANNOT be punished, for example, knowing that Chun’s Hazanshu is -1 when blocked is fantastic knowledge because it means that it is fairly safe - only a few moves start up in one frame, and they are all Ultras from the grappler characters Zangief, T. Hawk and Hakan (and I think Honda’s Ultra 2). What this means is that against a non-grappler, if they can’t counter Hazanshu - that is, to stop it before it hits, Hazanshu is safe.
When I seen the thread topic, a lightbulb went off in my head
Cause for such a long time, I’ve been asking myself the same question but knew absolutely nothing about it
Pretty much SnakeAes explained it perfectly for me
I like to crunch numbers but understanding the jist of it was a little overwhelming cause I didn’t know where to begin
And in doing so, I always lost focus and just went back to practicing combos
Thanks alot for putting this thread up crushing and thanks Snake for clearing it up
Useful, not necessary.
It was either Sabin or Valle who said “Do you really think JWong and *** know anything about frame data?”.