[How]Jumps and Anti Airs


#1

Ok first of all, today was my sixth day using an arcade stick and I tried to play a few casual matches online.

So one thing I noticed was the Jump speed. Unless you have been playing fighting games for over 1 or 2 years, the jumps feel to fast for what they can do.

Lets say I am using Urien or Balrog. The opponent gets a Hard knock down. I block Low and he neutral jumps and catches me. For an Over Head move that can lead to 500+ damage isn’t neutral jump way too fast. I have seen people like ChrisG use this and actually catch people.
Are jumps too fast or am I too slow ?


#2

It is a lot easier to react to a jump that is anticipated. To use an RL scenario, if someone throws a ball at you without you expecting it, it’s very unlikely you will catch it even when thrown softly. However if you are anticipating it and have your hands ready to catch it, you can catch it easily even if they throw it as hard as they can.

I haven’t played SFV in a while, but I’m pretty sure neutral jumps are slower or are the same speed as overheads, they’re catching you because you’re not expecting them.


#3

Nope, I am expecting them and well online Lag+ execution barrier (7th or 8th day since I started using an arcade stick). I tested it in Training. Flask kick to CA works absolutely fine , its just that I cant do it in a real match :slight_smile:

Worst part is I have won nearly 70% of my casual matches … seems my auto pilot is better than most auto pilots.


#4

Once you gain more experience reacting to a jumping normal will become totally natural, it’s really slow compared to other things you have to react to. That’s when people will start doing stuff like empty jump lows to take advantage of your good reactions.


#5

I doubt it. Not just cause of the super lag but because I don’t think SFV does what it intended to do. It was marketed as a game that would be about basics and players will rely heavily on fundamentals.

Unfortunately, I see stuff in this game that is akin to pushing offlane hard in first 5 mins, without WARDS. And people do that and they still manage to win. In a MOBA you just cant do that. No matter what ones skill level, they will get destroyed if they tried to do something like that. It will be a ADC+Tank + Jungler vs offlaner.

The basics/fundamentals are easy to learn and any violation of the said fundamentals will result in ones team losing a match without fail.

If capcom wanted people like me to learn something that is at the heart of fighting games i.e. footsies, and understand the beauty of fighting games they should have at least tried. At least make the air game as punishable as not warding or leaving a lane unprotected. This way everyone will stick to the ground and people will learn how to play footsies. This sadly isn’t happening at the level at which I play.

PS

I was/am a gold(agora)/Plat(Fury) in paragon and i did nothing but follow basics. In SFV I dont think i can reach super bronze LOL.


#6

No, really… blocking while standing instead of crouching when someone jumps is really easy. As easy as moving the stick from down-back to just back. Literally everyone from Silver on can do that.
If you’re having such issues either you don’t know how to use an arcade stick properly (in which case you might want to switch to pad) or you might have true motor disabilities, sorry.

Also yes, fighting games are much more demanding in execution than MOBAs. If you have issues with 40 frames jumps how will you react to the 18 frames overheads in GG?


#7

And when I block , am I actually “punishing” the opponent for doing something so risky. He is showing aggression and I am supposed to block ? As I said no one pushes offlane. No matter how good you are, you are not pushing that lane.

Ok now lets say if they were to reduce jump speed for most characters by 20 to 30% and make all Medium normal Anti-airs do crush counters. What will happen ?

No one is going to jump unless there is 1 or 2 really special situations. (Like a lane being completely empty, then you can push , yeah). The game will be grounded and people start learning. This is why I feel SFV should be last SF.

Capcom needs to make a NEW fighting game that is just pure fundamentals that is it. You play by the book.If the FGC is to grow it needs to convince people that there is actually strategy that can be accessed easily.


#8

There’s an issue with anti-airing in this game due to the big input lag but holy shit you’re making it way bigger than it is. Using your AA button or special of choice still isn’t hard at all if you train for it. The truth is you probably aren’t even looking for those AAs and therefore you get owned by them.

Also in the situation you described in the first post you won’t be able to do anything but block. You know why? Because after a hard knockdown they have all the time they want to set up a meaty jumping normal that you can only beat with DPs, and sometimes not even with them because you can set up safe jumps. Hard knockdowns are very rare in this game anyway and if you get hit by one it’s only your fault for mashing against their sweeps.

The fact now you start talking about normal AAs honestly just means you’re making excuses. Hit training mode and in no time you’ll learn to block or AA properly.


#9

League of Legends is a game for babies, welcome to the real world.


#10

It isn’t about Just anti-airing. Didn’t I say I realized how guile can easily stop people from doing that.

What I am trying to describe is a general problem with SFV. This is not the game it should have been which is evident from the fact that it failed to attract new gamers. The direction of the game is wrong. The speed , the amount of damage, stun guage … what were they thinking.

I am not going pro so I don’t want invest that kind of time.Even teenagers know that at the end of the day it would be a complete waste of time. In the real world no one cares if you are a Diamond level player or whatever. Go start preparing for your SATs or LMAT. If you already have a job try something like FRM. Most of these professional exams require the same kind of dedication that fighting games “require”.

Why would anyone spend so much time “training” in a video game when they can do something meaningful for themselves and their family ? Fighting games have to change drastically. The only person I know who is going in the right direction is David Sirlin.

That is why I said slow down Jumps. Here are some other suggestions remove stun guage , reduce damage , remove AA jabs, reduce walk and dash speed.


#11

You’re definitely too slow in that scenario. That is all you. Don’t believe me? Try neutral jumping on wakeup more often and you’ll see people anti-air you.

How about someone makes a fighting games and does these things, instead of changing Street Fighter to appease the casuals who want instant gratification? SF is doing fine.


#12

Completely agree. And that is why I hope street fighter V is the last street fighter I see for at least another 15 years. Capcom needs to develop a new fighting game. A game that can actually attract and retain beginners. A game where you don’t have to spend loads of time in the training room. Video games are a form of entertainment. Want to work hard? Do that in school/college or your work-place.


#13

Some video games are both entertainment and hard work. There is no rule that says they can’t be both. If you’re after instant gratification video games, there are plenty out there. It’s easier to just play one of them then try to change an established series or a whole genre to fit your needs.


#14

I am not asking to change the genre I am just saying Capcom needs to stop making “Street Fighters”. Make a simple basic game with strong fundamentals. SFV is like a MOBA in which everyone is an ADC.

You expect the same kind of effort a person needs to get an amazing job or scholarship. Seriously if LTG had spent this much time studying he would have done way way better for himself.
IIRC there was a16 year old league player who said don’t get into it if you are not going pro. It would be a waste of time. The only difference is in MOBAs you learn the fundamentals really quickly and you can enjoy the game at that level without training 2 or 3 hours daily. That is why MOBAs are popular.


#15

This game is legit the easiest and one of the slowest paced fighting games in the market nowadays. Dumbing it down even more would make it brainless. What the hell would happen if you got your hand on GG or VF?
Also stop comparing SFV to MOBAs, they are game for casual babies that anyone can play. People enjoy fighting games precisely for their complexity and the depth of the strategies one can develop with a better execution. They require work but the reward is fantastic once you get into it. And there are no teammates to blame if you screw up, it’s only you and your own skills.
If you can’t put a few hours into training mode per week then don’t waste your time with fighting games in general.


#16
  1. GG ? Please tell exactly me how many people play that game ? playerbase ? Not just GG but all arcsys games combined.

  2. No, I am not saying “Dumb Down SFV” … I am saying CAPCOM should stop making Street Fighters. It is time they make a new fighting game that can actually compete with other e-sport games.

Lol OK!!!


#17

People don’t play fighting games for the same reasons they go to school. Yes, both fighters and school are hard work. The difference is one is done for entertainment, and the other is not. I have lots of hobbies that I have devoted thousands of hours to for no purpose beyond personal gratification. I didn’t need to learn to play various musical instruments, but I did it anyway. I didn’t need to learn how to make instruments and furniture, but I did that too. Hell I payed money and went to school to learn that hobby.

Maybe your hangup is that you don’t feel the end result is worth the effort, but I do. And lots of other people do as well. Fighters might be a niche market, but they are far from dead. Right now we are getting loads of new fighters, so it seems ridiculous to insist that they change something that works.

Like I said before, SFV is doing fine. If someone wants to make an easier fighter, they are welcome to do that, but saying Capcom should abandon SF and chase the casual market doesn’t do anything for the people who want new SF games. I personally don’t think you can make an easier fighter by dumbing it down. New players would have the same problems. I’d rather see them come up with a better way to teach new players how fighters work.

And it might interest you to know that Riot games acquired the Rising Thunder dev team and is rumored to be making a fighting game. I don’t know if that rumor has been verified or debunked at this point, but you might keep an eye out for that.


#18

Neutral jump on wake up is a legit too to deal with someone who you notice prefers to block low.

Also, a lot of things in Street Fighter, or any fighting game for that matter are about prediction, not reaction. The genre is heavy on identifying your opponents patterns and habits and making reads based on that. If you’re eating a lot of neutral jump normals, then it’s likely because your opponents have identified that you like to crouch block on wake up. If you’re getting crush countered a lot (which I can infer based on the fact that you seem to get caught in hard knockdown situations based on your post), it’s likely because your opponents know that you like to press buttons.

Reading your opponents is the most fundamental required in any fighting game.


#19

So what? People who play them are happy because of the reason I explained above. Making them too easy would take out much of the enjoyment you have in playing them.
Whether you like it or not, there’s a considerable demand in the world for “hard” games - Dark Souls series being the greatest example of that. FGs have a steeper learning curve than your average shooter or MOBA and this won’t change soon.

There’s no way ANY fighting game will reach the audience of a CS:GO or LoL, simply because they’re not team games and they are meant to have a basic degree of complexity the other games don’t have. A FG like the one you describe wouldn’t be fun to play nor to watch because it would require zero skill.

Again, it’s very clear you don’t have the mindset required to play or enjoy fighting games, so I suggest you to just keep playing LoL with the other babies and leave FGs to those who enjoy the kind of intricacy they offer.


#20

Lol I come back to this post about a day later and it turns out you didn’t want advice on how to improve (which is why you used some lame excuse to discount my valid advice) but you just wanted to vent about your issues with street fighter.

Okay, whatever floats your boat, not everyone likes street fighter. But it’s a pretty shitty thing to reach out to people willing to help you, only to argue back at their advice with poor excuses and rants about how you don’t like the game.