How likely is it that current 360/PS3 sticks will work next gen?


#1

This is something that I’ve been curious about. Not just if any sticks will work next console gen, but if some will be more likely to than others.

For example, MadCatz sticks are officially licensed, so does that mean they’ll probably work with whatever Microsoft and Sony put out next? What about unlicensed sticks like Qanbas?


#2

We won’t know until we hear some details about the next systems, hopefully at E3.


#3

While I don’t think any of us have any idea where controllers will go, one can hope that Sony will continue what they have been doing with an open controller standard. At the very least this would allow a firmware update to Cthulhu boards, so sticks using said PCBs would be viable in the next gen. One would also hope they wouldn’t change the controllers, since USB is kind of a connection standard at this point.

Sadly though, these are only hopes and wishes. Can’t offer a real answer. =(


#4

I don’t follow your logic.

Does the NES Advantage arcade stick work on the Wii? Why do you think a previous console’s controllers should work on future machines? This rarely ever happens, exceptions being PSX>PS2 and Gamecube>Wii. Licensing is only valid for the console it was released on and does not by default include new generation consoles. I do not know why you would think this.

Any future consoles I’d expect to use USB 3.0 technology. It may be possible to make certain older controllers work with this, but only through the use of an adapter.

Or you could just keep up with the times and modify your stick with a current gen PCB.


#5

Why USB 3.0??? The transmission speed of USB 2.0 is fine enough for controllers. You’d only need USB 3.0 if you needed the speed for far higher packets of data. Doesn’t follow; memory cards pretty much got retired this past generation in favor of hard drives.

The only thing that needs USB 3.0 are those crazy expensive solid state drives. Even that’s kind of being bypassed by the “cloud phenomenon” where you can store your data in a virtual hard drive. (Very, very risky… As insecure as the Internet is now, a virtual hard drive that anybody can log into is a good idea? They can’t even protect our bank accounts!)

There’s another new connection standard being pioneered by Apple and other companies to take the place of Firewire (which crashed and burned because Apple wouldn’t license the technology to enough companies; that’s why USB is the major connection standard). Was called Light Peak, now called Thunderbolt. Not sure if even that’s necessary unless the game companies really think it will make a difference for controllers. I really don’t think it will matter for digital controllers (old style d-pads and joysticks). Maybe for analog or something else that needs to be more sensitive.

Nobody knows yet.


I really don’t expect the next generation to support the current controllers. It’s likely Microsoft will alter its controller chip scheme again so that you’ll have to buy new controllers (or reverse-engineered PCB’s) to use your current controllers on a new system.

This business of backwards compatibility is a gimmick Sony started to gravitate fanboys to the PS2; it was never a factor before when other generations of new systems launched beforehand. PS2 had better standards of compatibility with the PS1 than the PS3 ever did with the PS2 but neither was 100% backwards compatible. There were PS1 controllers and games that wouldn’t run on the new systems for whatever reasons.

I dunno… I’d rather see cheaper systems that were gaming first and put the other things besides the online aspect second. This business of trying to be all things to everybody just confused the hell out of people start of this generation and resulted in systems that are still $100 more expensive than their predecessors were at this point in time. Not to mention all the reliability issues – both systems run too hot, but the 360 is especially bad. 30 years of gaming and I’ve never seen another system that had so many malfunctions and basic manufacturing defects. And yet people still keep buying into it even after they’ve traded in for their fourth copy of the system! Amazing…

If rumors about the PS4 are true (AMD chips for graphics processors instead of Nvidia this turnaround), it means you can kiss all backwards compatibility with PS2 software good-bye unless it’s strictly software emulation — and that won’t work well enough for many people. That’s what MS did with the 360, too.

Backwards compatibility is just a carrot the game companies use to get people to buy new systems. You’re getting next to zero credit from GameStop or other used game companies for old hardware; why not just keep it for the older games and controllers and worry about new games on the new system? The older games will NEVER run as smoothly on Generation-Next as they did on their mother systems!


#6

I don’t know anything about how specific sticks have been affected in the past, I’m new to the genre and I primarily game on a PC. I do know that with operating systems for example there’s always an effort made to keep older hardware compatible. The info you’ve provided is interesting because it seems to suggest that console manufacturers prefer to keep peripheral makers on a short leash.


#7

Consoles and PC’s are completely separate entities.


#8

I get that, and this looks like yet another example of why I find the iron grip of console manufacturers so distasteful.

When you consider that tens of thousands of pieces of old hardware are made compatible for any given computer OS, it’s pretty clear that a console maker failing to make a few hundred devices compatible from just the prior gen or two is due to them wanting a steady stream of licensing deals at the expense of consumers. There’s no legitimate technological reason.


#9

We’ll just use adapters if they don’t. My Arcade stick is a PS2 HRAP and i’ve been using it just fine on my 360.


#10

My money is on this:
[LIST]
[]New Xbox is compatible with Xbox360 controllers, wireless and wired
[
]New PlayStation is compatible with PS3 controllers, wireless and wired
[/LIST]


#11

I’d say it’s lest likely for Microsoft to have compatibility with 360 controllers on the 720.

But I couldn’t foresee the PS4 removing compatibility for PS3 controllers, but I could be surprised.

But it’s very possible both end up BC with controllers, and hopefully that’s the case. The biggest problem would be if the 720 isn’t BC with 360 peripherals, because then we’ll have to wait for a CG 720 pad to have a workable padhack on the 720, for madcatz to release 720 sticks, or for someone to hack the USB handshake for 720 peripherals (and that took quite a while for the 360). PS4 not being BC, but having (most likely) pretty open standards would just require us to wait for Toodles/Akishop to patch it into the Cthulhu/PS360+.


#12

I don’t know if we’ll get backward compatibility but I hope Sony leaves their console open for PCBs for Toodles.


#13

I think they’ll keep the market open for new peripherals…

I wouldn’t count on any of the PCB’s for today’s controllers working on the PS4 (real original name) or 720 (or whatever silly name MS chooses to call its next system).

As nice as it is to migrate old, favored controllers to new systems, the name of the game for electronics is planned obsolescence.

Why keep the old stuff operational when you can make it obsolete? It’s for sure Sony and MS don’t make money from people recycling old hardware… They definitely make money from new licensed product!

I don’t care… I plan on keeping at least a half-dozen controllers with me for current system, retro-play, and PC/Mac. At least half of what I have now are gutted, repurposed old controllers like the Dreamcast Agetec and Hori Tekken 5 joysticks.

My main concern with a limited budget is how much will the NEXT generation of consoles cost? Sony about did themselves in with high initial cost on the PS3… MS can’t afford another hardware screw-up with the next-gen XBox, or even the MS faithful are going to desert the new system. I’m concerned if they’ll both get the message and produce reliable, decently affordable systems that don’t break in 3-6 months. It’d be nice to see the reliability that Sega and Nintendo had with their consoles come back with the current market.


#14

I don’t know, it seems like better practice to move units if they were to just make it BC with peripherals.

I’m more apt to get a 720 day one if I don’t also have to replace/update my peripherals.

Man, what a PITA that will be for everyone who has a dual modded 360/MC Chtulhu with Imp stick. Even worse for people like me who used DPDT.

Is there a readily available DPTT switch?


#15

Well the PS3 can recognize a set of generic USB drivers, so in theory any future console that supports that set of drivers will also support all current PS3 sticks. 360 on the other hand uses a proprietary set of drivers made by Microsoft, so its entirely in their court over whether their next console has support for the drivers they wrote.


#16

We should all rest easy, some clever Chinese man will figure out a $20 PS1 adapter for the systems :wink:


#17

But this is how it has always been with consoles so why should anyone expect it to be any different with the next gen? We have always had to wait for a decent pad PCB to be released that could be hacked into a stick, and there is rarely a day 1 solution. Hell, it wasn’t till Sega released the VSHG when there was a breakthrough with PS3 usb coding. It takes time for things like custom PCB’s to be developed, I’m fully prepared for all the boards I currently have not be supported on the next run of consoles. Perhaps there may be a workaround with a MC Cthulhu, Kitty, and PS360+, but everything else I’ll consider a no go for now.

And given the amount of unregulated controllers developed for the PS3 it would not surprise me at all if Sony enforced a Microsoft style security encryption with their next machine.

I guess time will tell…


#18

but how much lag and input drops will it have?


#19

Depends if Sony or MS tries shit like the WiiU or makes Kinect or Move mandatory.
If controllers had a built in lcd touch screen or some other experimental stuff we may be screwed.


#20

This is where I stand.
It’s not in the company’s best interest to keep making backwards-compatible hardware.

My favorite 2 examples:

  1. PS1 controllers worked on a PS2. I spent the ENTIRE life of the PS2 using my oh-so-rare-and-favorite Analog Controller (not the Dual Shock, the short-lived rumble-less Analog controller by Sony). I don’t think I bought any additional PS2 controllers, mainly because I didn’t like the analog buttons and D-pad. Had they made it so that PS1 controllers were not usable on a PS2, I would’ve sucked it up and bought/used Dual Shock 2s.
  2. GameCube controllers worked on a Wii. Smash Bros Melee supported these GC controllers. Putting aside the fact that the GC controller is arguably better for Smash Bros Melee than the Classic Controller, no one bought CCs. Everyone just used their GC controllers for Smash Bros, and Nintendo shot themselves in the foot. Had they made the Wii (or at least, Smash Bros) not support the GC controller, they would’ve at least made money off of CC sales, and people would’ve had to deal with it.