How precise is the timing on combos? [SF4 Juri example]


#1

I’m fairly new to the game and using the arcade stick in general so I’m trying to figure out if some of the execution problems I’m currently facing are part of the adjustment period or particular to SSF4:AE.

Last night I decided to start learning some basic combos for Juri. I pulled two BnB combos from the thread here to practice with: S.I.N Tactics - Juri Combo Thread V2.0

First one I tried was: :lk: > :lk: > cr :mp: xx H Senpusha ( :qcb: :hk:)

After a few minutes with that I became frustrated due to a complete a total lack of progress. I thought maybe I’d picked one that was trickier or something and figured I’d move on to the next one and come back later.

So the second combo was: :lk: > :lp: > cr :mk: xx H Senpusha ( :qcb: :hk:)

I hit the same wall so I decided to just spend the rest of the night hammering away at this combo. By the end of the night I’m still having trouble pulling it off. Even the opening poke of :lk: > :lp: isn’t coming out consistently(auto-block in training mode stuffs the second hit about 25% of the time). It seems to very much be an issue of timing all the inputs correctly but I’m wondering if this is a pretty standard thing or did I just pick some more demanding combos to learn right off the bat?


#2

I was always told if you do the combo and the move dosn’t come out then you did it to fast and if the cpu is blocking part of the combo then your doing that part to slow. Adjust your timing based on the results you get. Not sure if this helps but its something someone else taught me and it worked for me.


#3

Links are hard.
I’m no Juri expert, but :lk: :lp: is a 2-frame link I think and :lp: :d::mk: is a 1-frame. Those are pretty hard links to pull of consistently.
Again, I could be wrong about those… but think that’s correct.

:lk:, :d::mp: is definitely a 1-frame link. Those are no joke. You might have better luck if you learn to plink it.


#4

Since they’re both one hit into special and they aren’t coming out I have to ask if you know the difference between links and cancels? because even if it’s a hard link you should be steadily making progress if you know how links work, so I’m being lead to assume that you aren’t trying the link and are most likely just hitting the buttons as fast as possible, which won’t work in SF4.


#5

Well I did start out hitting them rapidly, but I noticed I was connecting more often when I slowed the input down a little. But yes you are correct in your speculation, I don’t really know the difference between a link and a combo. My experience with fighting games is pretty much limited to casually playing Third Strike with roommates back in college.


#6

A link is a type of combo.
Links and chains make combos.

Simple difference: Link is when you have the entire move come out, recover, and do another move.
chains are when you cancel one move into another. Rapid fire jabs, or :d:+:mk: xx hadoken is an example of a chain.

You can have both in one combo.

:d:+:mp:, :d:+:mk: xx :qcf:+:hp:
The c.mp links to c.mk and the c.mk is cancelled (indicated by xx) into the hadoken.

What I mean by 1-frame links and 2-frame links…
You have 1/60th or 2/60ths of a second to properly time hitting the next button in the sequence for the two hits to combo.

You can effectively double your chances of hitting the correct input by a technique called "plinking"
Plinking in a nutshell…

Say you want to link together the s.lk > c.mp as you mentioned in your first comment. That’s a 1 frame link.
To give yourself 2/60ths of a second rather than 1/60th of a second, hit the inputs like this:
s.lk, c.mp~lp
It’s not a very easy thing to explain, but while you’re holding the mp, tap the lp IMMEDIATELY afterwards. Literally 1/60th of a frame afterwards. The mp and lp will register in the game as being hit simultaneously, but separate from the first mp, giving you two inputs, but only having hit the button once.

There are plenty of articles on plinking on this site, if you really want to get into it.

BTW - it’s easier to just do it than to explain it.


#7

Ah, so basically I’m attempting to learn the basics by starting with something that requires extremely precise timing.

Guess I’ll give it a few more days of training and see if I can get the muscle memory down.


#8

Thing is, you’re not learning basics. Just because something is a BnB combo doesn’t mean it’s a basic combo to get yourself started with.
Juri’s not a “basic” character. A lot of characters have BnBs that take are far from basic.

I mean, I’d say “links” themselves are basic. But 1-frame links are like the creme de la creme of links. They’re very difficult to execute, and being able to do them shows you have mastery of your character’s combos. They are indeed essential if you want to be competitive though.

EDIT:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2010/may/09/juris-frame-data-super-street-fighter-4/

Check this out.

Look at the move and you only need two columns here.
frame advantage on hit and startup.

s.lk into c.mp…

s.lk = 6 frames advantage on hit.(close lk)
c.mp = 6 frames startup.

It’s a 1 frame link. You cannot make ANY mistakes in executing it.