Juicebox FGC: how’s training going?
Ronin: not bad
Ronin: i am starting to think more about how much players vary their choices, good players almost seem to never repeat the same thing twice unless they have some type of read that results in damage
Ronin: i am also starting to also see that how you have to base your options based on the distance between you and your opponent and what where his habits during ur presence at certain set distances.
Juicebox FGC: very good
Ronin: but again i am starting to see the flaws in sf4 too and how a lot of the game boils down to guessing
Ronin: i could be wrong
Juicebox FGC: well in footsies don’t forget
Juicebox FGC: you can almost always jump away or press no buttons, so you’re not forced to “guess” exactly
Juicebox FGC: but if your opponent does something repeatedly and you wish to counter it, then you you’ll need to take the risk
Ronin: I see
Juicebox FGC: but you are on the right track, though
Juicebox FGC: once you start using your normals smartly, your opponent, if smart, can vary his normals as well
Juicebox FGC: and it turns into a “new” guessing game
Juicebox FGC: for example if you’re Ryu and I’m Bison
Juicebox FGC: I like MK, you start whiff punishing it with cr.MP, so next time I get to MK range I hit HP instead
Juicebox FGC: and every time I hit HP your cr.MP isn’t working, so you want to use cr.MK
Juicebox FGC: and now i can use my MK again
Juicebox FGC: etc
Ronin: lol yeah i came to that conclusion as well. this also serves as a tool to see how has a good ground game or not for example i would test my someone by pressing a certain button that I know that they have a counter too if my opponent does not do anything as answer that gives me an indication that their ground game is weak hence I can exploit that
Juicebox FGC: exactly, that’s exactly it
Juicebox FGC: that’s how I can tell who knows their normals and who doesn’t
Juicebox FGC: another thing
Juicebox FGC: is that you are probably now curious about your normals now, wondering what things they can counter poke, rather than thinking of them as simple pokes
Juicebox FGC: Ryu’s HP is a great example
Ronin: however i still have to make a habit of this thinking process
Ronin: i never want to play on auto pilot again
Ronin: i also had a question is there a fundamental difference between poking to make contact with the tip of the normal or just attacking the space in front of your opponent
Ronin: i mean do they both count as poke?
Ronin: or now that i think about it the latter is more or less zoning
Juicebox FGC: it can vary
Juicebox FGC: poking at the tip of your normal range is usually better for being aggressive
Juicebox FGC: or, let me put it another way
Juicebox FGC: attacking the space in front of your opponent is intended to catch certain moves, whereas actually walking into poke range and poking with the tip of a normal is not for catching moves, but for trying to scare your opponent into not pressing buttons
of a normal is not for catching moves, but for trying to scare your opponent into not pressing buttons
Ronin: ah okay
Ronin: ah i understand one is more effective to stop someone from walking forward while the other gives you a chance to walk forward, even though they seem similar their usage is different
Juicebox FGC: exactly
Juicebox FGC: the difference between occupying space and aggressively poking is only a step or two
Ronin: i see
Juicebox FGC: and this is why top level players are always walking in and out of that range
Ronin: omg it makes a lot of sense right now, oh shit it’s like a bulb just went off in my mind.
Ronin: i always wondering why that is so effective
Ronin: so i guess from there you can just narrow their options and start observing their game plan
Ronin: it makes it much easier to see what they are doing
Ronin: and correct me if i am wrong but with this mentality you can just end up categorizing people into different play styles, which will give you and idea of how to deal with them
Juicebox FGC: yup!
Juicebox FGC: Let’s take Dudley for example
Juicebox FGC: we both know his best poke is F+HP
Juicebox FGC: there is a spot where Dudley’s like to use it… at the tip range
Juicebox FGC: some Dudley’s do this a lot, others do it rarely
Juicebox FGC: the first might be “aggressive” dudleys and the latter are “passive” dudleys
Juicebox FGC: Quiz time!
Juicebox FGC: What do you think a “passive Dudley” is trying to do?
Ronin: bait me into doing something that he can punish
Juicebox FGC: right they’re waiting for you
Juicebox FGC: As Ryu they might be waiting for your cr.MK, which Dudley can whiff punish with his cr.MK, or even F+HP
Juicebox FGC: or let’s say you’re Abel
Juicebox FGC: he might be waiting for a step kick he can whiff punish with st.HK (!)
Juicebox FGC: this knowledge will go a long way towards learning new characters, by the way
Juicebox FGC: You can now be more mindful of how to play as a character with slow walk speed, for example. (Makoto, Zangief, Cody, etc)
Ronin: or hell i understand how sims play right now
Juicebox FGC: long-range footsies, but still footsies
Juicebox FGC: next time you play against one, stand outside of his st.HP range and try to counterpoke it
Juicebox FGC: all of a sudden, you’re daigo. (counterpoke with cr.HP xx Super)
Juicebox FGC: how’s training going?