How to beat Bison?

e-honda

#1

I feel ashamed, after seeing that apparently Honda vs Dictator is 6-4 match-up in Honda’s favour, yet I can’t beat him at all! I try everything and just can’t figure out how to win. Against all Bison players of all skill levels I can’t work out whether he’s in the air or on the ground most of the time, and I’m really unsure of how Honda should treat this match-up. Any tips?

http://youtu.be/bcqrQTEi86Q


#2

I’ve noticed Bison players tend to fall into their patterns.

Look up frame data first.

Get close. Always be close. Don’t need to always be doing damage, but always be close. This is a useful way of baiting them into doing their scissor kick (is that the right name? The spinny flip-kick they do from crouching.)

Bison can do that mid-air thing where he changes direction into an attack to bait and switch you. Look at when he goes into the air and drill into his head a specific action, do the same thing each time. Eventually, he’ll use his mid-air move thing in response because it’s his main choice in that situation.

Gotta bait them all the goddamn time and stay defensive. That’s the only way I ever got anywhere fighting a Bison.


#3

I can bait easily but don’t know how to punish. Seems like the only answer to light scissor kicks is EX Headbutt on reaction.


#4

If Honda isn’t patient, he will lose. If Honda uses strong or fierce headbutts and they are blocked (and they almost always are) then he will lose. Jab and ex headbutts are safe, you can use them safely from some ranges. Butt drop doesn’t work because Bison has an anorexic hitbox. It will generally whiff coming down. Stop doing random specials, just hold your charge.

Just worry about hitting him with anti air when he jumps, don’t go to him. If you are losing? STILL don’t go to him if there’s any time left on the clock.


#5

How do you punish psycho crusher and scissor kicks?


#6

If this above is a video of you playing I’ll tell you why you lose:

Random fullscreen headbutts: you lost round one just because you did too many of these. They are not a good approach method, are unsafe on block and can be stuffed. Stop doing these. Stop doing random headbutts if they aren’t lp/ex headbutt. Bison can utra you or just scissor kick you for fun.

You jump all the time, why? Stay grounded unless you really think you can land that jHP or jHK. Play footsies, walk back and forward, try to land cr.jab HHS and build meter if blocked. Stop jumping when it’s not needed. Stop jumping altogether for starters and try to incorporate jumpins in your game once you are comfortable with no jumping. I’m not saying this because you got AAd frequently, but because you fucked up your positioning at least 5 times just by jumping randomly.

Stop doing stuff on your wakeup. In the match the guy didn’t even pressure your wakeup and you just did buttslams and wasted meter on ex headbutts when your opponent was just jumping around. There’s no reason to not just block/tech throws, you waste your precious meter doing them ex headbutts that can be safe jumped anyway. Learn to block.

All in all, work on your fundamentals and stop doing random shit just for the sake of it. You need to play random and not fall into patterns with Honda or you won’t win but you will never win regularly if you random out all the time.


#7

What Retekin and Blueberry said, good stuff.
You are trying to do too much. This match is about patience. Honda has much better dmg output, much better antiairs, and much better jump ins than Bison.
I will post here what a bison player said about this match (so is from a Bison perspective):

"Honda has 50 more health and has much better damage output.
Bison’s only shot in this match up is get the life lead at the start due to his superior footsies and force Honda to come onto to him. Its his best shot but unreliable because Bison has no reliable AA against J.LP/J.MP and Honda is incredible strong once he gets in. HHS/Ochio/Ex.Headbutt/Buttslam mix up is pretty hard for Bison to get out of. Honda can cross up Bison with J.MK to stuff Ex.PC. NJ.HP to stuff DR wake up and he can move it as well to make Ex.Stomp whiff. Ex.Headbutt as a meaty stuffs Bisons horizontal reversals and is safe from his vertical ones. He can’t punish Ex.PC on block from point blank but he’s best off just sitting a little bit back and reacting to Bisons wake up or space himself so he can punish Ex.PC on block with S.HK or C.LP xx Hands. The main difficult for Honda is getting into jump range and its Bison chance to increase the life lead. He can also run away with EX.PC

Headbutt is a good high priority move Honda can throw out randomly. His light and ex.version being safe. The others require Bison to have charge to punish.
Honda’s AA’s are much more reliable. S.HP is good for him when he doesn’t have charge. Headbutt both LP and EX is bulletproof.
Honda wins air to air. His Jump backs are particularly good.

If Honda gets the life lead and gets meter, Bison can do nothing its like Guile with macro’s. He can’t get in. Ex.Headbutt counters everything. It stuffs Psycho crushers and scissors kicks, its beats DR empty or otherwise. Jump ins are stuffed. DR meter build shut down. Stomp is stuffed. Tick throws are stuffed (god luck getting even that close), pokes are stuffed, its safe on block and Bison can’t even chip is back safely. Bisons only shot is to bait it out and guess lucky. Honda can also mix in C.LP buffered to HHS if Bison gets really close. He can sit there, Fort Knox would be easier to crack. 2 Guiles would be easier to get in on.
Honda’s wake up is incredible strong. Techable knockdowns get Bison nothing. Headbutt and Buttslam get him out of danager, Hard knockdowns at least allow safe cross ups, but Honda’s will often do Ex.Headbutt and take an OS S.MK and the 70 damage to get out. Bison can do a later cross up to stuff the reversal headbutt but Honda can counter this with a none reversal EC. Headbutt. If Bison can get him to the corner he can punish both of Honda’s wake up options if he stands block (which leaves him open to C.LP or throws)."


#8

I only play like this against bison. Usually I rarely jump with Honda (unless it’s against fireball characters of course) and don’t do too many random stuff. But with Bison I find if I stand my ground he can scissor kick all day and I have no way of punishing it.


#9

I…don’t know what to say. You are posting a video making a load of fundamental mistakes as Honda but you don’t really play that way, just against Bison?
Then try to play solid and don’t do those fundamental mistakes, you should win a lot more.

Also, cr.jab stuffs scissor kicks, so does ex headbutt. Don’t try to punish the kicks, make him stop doing them.


#10

Sorry but this is bullshit, your play in this video shows that you dont understand some certain importand aspects of the game. I dont want to say that you suck, but you really are not good !!! Just accept it, its not your fault or bad in any way, just accept it and try to improve.

You have to let him whiff his scissors, same princinple as against adon, walk back and forth, if he whiffs sissors, punish with s.hk or hp, or lp into HHs if you cant do it. You can also neutral jump against them, when timed right he will miss you and you can punish on the downfall, also neutral jump hp is really safe due to its priority (dont do this too much against Abel with his U2). As it seems you have absolutely no idea of bisons frame data, you blocked a lot of mk and hk scissors and then you jumped!!?? wtf, just punish with anything, you can command throw, or lp into HHS, just do anything insteadt of jumping.
I dont want to sound mean, but I am sure you have problems in a lot of matchups, I dont win every game myself, but I know why I am losing and what I can do to improve and what to look for.


#11

If you don’t believe me check out my other videos. So it’s not “bullshit”. It literally is only Bison and Dee Jay which I struggle against; hence why I made a post. Otherwise why would I make a thread asking for advice on the match-up?


#12

Actually I checked your other vids and random fullscreen HP headbutts seem to be a staple of your gameplay. stop doing them


#13

hey not sure if you are still gonna check this but here’s my 2 cents; I am rank 50 on XBL and have played some of the best Bisons in Europe so i am giving you legit tips that are proven to work and beat the best bisons!

you need to learn cr LP hhs , it looks like you can’t do it. on your jump in i noticed you went from jk to HHS without any cr lp, that is not right. there are lots of ways, i invented my own way which i find easiest LP MP LP MP HP you can play it like a drum or you can do the piano rolls LP MP HP LP HP or the weird one LP HP MP LP HP. That is the best way to punish a scissor kick; however any good M Bison player wont even use a MK or HK scissor, they will only use LK or EX which you can’t actually punish! You have to just block it and accept it. However- take a look at the chip it does - next to NOTHING! You don’t need to worry about punishing this move unless its the HK or MK one but like i said no smart player will ever use this move against honda. Cr LP - hhs is your best possible punish in ANY MATCHUP because it comes out faster than anything else honda has, 5 frames and it does the most damage. a headbutt takes 10 frames to start up, really doesn’t punish much on it’s own to be honest! you need to combo it from lp or lk to get the startup time down to 5 frames for it to be effective. its acutally much better for punishing something like a whiffed SRK, ultra if you dont have yours, etc. or if they are too far out of range to get the full hit off the hands then do cr lp into headbutt for a nice chunk of damage.

NJ fierce wasnt used once! That is your ultimate tool for shutting down his head stomps. If you are more than 3/4 of the screen back you can basically spam it without worry. It is quite a safe move actually and since it can move forward it can be a good way to get in. I would also not choose ultra 2 in this matchup, even though you hit it, this player is quite bad and i would recommend u1 because you can snipe headstomps. When a bison is doing a headstomp then devils reverse from full screen to build meter you can snipe it with U1 HP Headbutt but be careful he can bait you. Also you CAN focus a head stomp but if he devil reverses you then you will get hit, so better to focus that instead.

You lost 3/4 damage to HP Headbutts being punished! Don’t do that move if it can be punished, the only people who you can really use it against are Ryu without super, Guile without super, Gouken, T Hawk, Akuma without u1, Sakura, and I think that’s it! maybe a couple others… there are a few videos on youtube but just try it out and if you see someone can punish it you gotta stop doing it immediately. It’s got a 14 frame recovery!!! Stick to LP and EX and i wouldnt even use them as pokes to be honest… I only really use HP Headbutt when someone is abusing dashforward on wakeup.

SAve your EX Meter for EX headbutt Anti Airs only. its an amazing anti-air tool it is probably the easiest anti air to use in the game and works against basically anything. The only other thing i use EX meter for is HHS hit confirm into super which is something you should probably learn too. It is a great comeback tool for honda and quite easy to land for 450 dmg.

jump back fierce is a good way to beat scissor kicks too especially when you are in the corner. if you sniff one coming and you have no meter then jump back fierce to safety. Another little trick i do is lp headbutt to bait scissors then EX headbutt immediately after, a lot of people fall for it.

you need to stop buttslamming at the beginning, actually just stop using the move in general, its a horrible option. its super unsafe, people can focus it and BLOW YOU UP! buttslams are my worst habit and the wakeup ones didnt help you at all in this match. you gotta learn to block on wakeup, i really only ever use it if i sniff out a throw and i dont have EX.

good luck and let me know if you have any more questions on ANY matchups!!! I am on here every day.


#14

Thanks for the advice, really good tips.


#15

Here’s some vids just to give you an idea on how to approach the matchup. Notice the Honda staying grounded, not going nuts with hp headbutt, and punishing Bison’s openings. Also, good pressure and Hundred Hands use:


Notice how you can scare people into walking back and to the corner just by moving forward and doing your own pokes.

This matchup (I would also like to say SF in general) is who gets impatient first, loses.