How to deal with up-back: A way of smartly using PW's cr.L

phoenix-wright

#1

Guys, I think I may have found a way to deal with up-back in the corner that doesn’t rely on using grabs or a meter. It uses cr.:l:.

Now before you laugh and ask why I even created a thread for this when I could have simply posted in the general thread, think about it. What special property does all of PW’s normals have (besides their terrible reach)? It’s their active frames. PW’s cr.:l: has 10 active frames, which on average, is 4-5x the amount of active frames for every other character for their cr.:l:'s (except MODOK or Tron).

It’s also PW’s only low in Trial Mode and Turnabout Mode that doesn’t require him to hit the opponent (Note Scribbling) or use meter (Steel Samurai Maya Smelting). This is why I created a thread for this, since it’ll be very vital to get this down.

Now how do we use it? Simply put, because the active frames last so long, it is very easy for jumping characters to land right into it, and if they continue to hold up-back it’ll hit them during their pre-jump frames, allowing you to combo them.

“But Poltergust, wouldn’t they get hit by the cr.:l: in the air and be able to block it?”

Good question, but this is where (surprisingly) PW’s bad hitboxes actually help him. At a certain range, PW’s cr.:l: will only hit a grounded opponent, which will let you catch people going up-back. Go into training mode and try it out for yourself. If you’re hitting the opponent with cr.:l: when they are still in the air, you’re too close. If you’re completely whiffing it, you’re too far away. Try to get it down for characters of multiple sizes.

“But wouldn’t it be a bit unsafe to try to perform a raw cr.:l: against an airborne opponent? What if they come down with an attack?”

This is where we may encounter a problem, since this strategy does carry a bit of risk with it. Think about the circumstances in the match. What mode are you in? Do you have assists covering you? Do they? Do you have X-Factor? If you consider these points then you should be able to gauge whether the opponent may retaliate or not. For example, if you have an X-Factored Turnabout Mode PW and the opponent is up-backing in the corner, I can almost guarantee that they will not try to attack you, making this strategy very worthwhile to get down.

Anyways, I hope this helps other PW’s open up people in the corner.

(Note: Having X-Factor and/or Turnabout Mode activated gives you a speed boost, decreasing the amount of active frames. Make sure you take note of that.)

(2nd Note: Abusing the active frames on PW’s normals is something that we should be doing in general. As the hitbox thread indicates, a lot of hitboxes are extremely disjointed, like Investigation s.:h: and Trial cr.:h:. Remember, the most important thing to have when playing PW is smarts, so figuring out what moves will fit what situations is very pivotal for success.)


#2

I do cr.L against people who hold up back, but not in the way you describe. I’m trying to catch them out of their start up on jump frames with his cr.L but I do notice I catch them sometimes while they land. I’ll probably try to incorporate it a bit more to open people up since right now I just rely on throwing people mainly.


#3

That’s basically what I said. Every character has 4 pre-jump frames before they’re airborne (except MODOK, who is airborne immediately but can’t block for 5 frames). During this time, you can hit them with a low attack and they’ll be unable to block it. It’s hard to go for this as any other character because the active frames for their cr.:l:'s only last 2-3 frames. With PW, though, the window to throw out a cr.:l: is so big that you can use it against characters that are still airborne and are about to fall down into it lol.

Basically, you know you’re doing this correctly if you’re hitting an opponent while they’re standing. That means that you hit them during their pre-jump frames.


#4

This seems really good glad you made this thread man. Usually I just go for overhead/grab, but this sounds much better, especially with an assist.