How to do an empty jump cr. short and not get thrown?


#1

Hey guys i have been seeing from a lot of Ken and Akuma players in USF4 where the do like an empty forward jump or in akumas case his deamon flip and then they do an instant crouching short (light kick) and then do another combo. I was just wondering if there is like a crazy timing to do this because whenever i jump on my opponent who i have just thrown or swept whatever, if i dont hit them or put them into block stun i just get instantly thrown. ive tried so many variations but im starting to think its not really possible or the timing is extremely tight. I knock them down, i jump over them and i wanna just do a crouching short and another combo but every time the throw is quicker. Any ideas?


#2

add an lp input when you do your short and if they try to throw, you’ll tech it.


#3

There are 3 ways to do it:

  1. Land far enough away that you cannot be thrown.
  2. On a wake up, jump early enough that your attack will hit before they can throw you.
  3. Do your low slightly later than you naturally would and make it a crouch tech at the same time. If they throw you its a crouch tech, if they try to block high they get hit low.

#4

Successful empty jump lows are usually the result of conditioning. It doesn’t work exactly, it starts working once you’ve trained them to tech later or walk backwards.


#5

You don’t need to condition your opponent. All you need is for your opponent to know that they have to block jump attacks high.

edit
Since you generally don’t just talk out of your ass, I’ll elaborate for you.

Ryu forward throw is a manual safe jump timing, if you purposely time it so that you are a frame or two early, you can empty jump low and your opponent will most likely get hit from a high block attempt or a crouch tech/throw attempt. No conditioning needed, it just a manipulation of human inability to comprehend the difference in frames up to a certain number (Idk the number, I think Combo Fiend said 11.) Also, like I said, there are 3 different types of empty jump lows, conditioning can be require or not required depending on the version used.


#6

11 frames is roughly the threshold of human twitch reaction (that is, reacting to anything at all happening with no kind of analysis). Humans can comprehend things of lower frame counts, but it takes 10+ to start reacting to what you’ve seen.


#7

A perfect unthrowable empty jump low is 4 frames earlier than a safe jump. Can we tell the difference between the two jumps or do they look the same. Personally, I feel they look identical…


#8

i use setups like whiff a normal move after a throw to time my cr.LK empty jump


#9

People who know match ups will identify the normal and defend/counter your set up appropriately. If you can learn how to manually time your set up, you can play around with early and late timings. I use a combination of the two. I forward throw with ryu, walk back a little, use a crouch medium punch to train my opponent, then I jump in at safe times and alternate to slightly off times once the I’ve established that I can safe jump properly.