How to get in/landing first/any hit?


#1

So, got a question that I haven’t been able to find an answer to.
I’m a scrub at MvC and I’m not afraid to admit that. I gots no problem nailing combos, none at all but I got a major flaw. I don’t quite understand how to “get in there” so to speak.

I’m running a team with Akuma on point, Taskmaster second and Spencer as anchor. Yeah, akuma’s normals kinda suck in the range department but it’s a consistent problem for me.

Let’s say the match starts. If we’re up in each other’s face, I mash heavy to land a quick throw, always get beaten out by something. We’re close to each other and I try sticking out some normals to start a combo, I almost always get hit first. Say I push-block 'em away and try getting in again, I get hit in the air. I’m at fullscreen getting chipped by projectiles, I superjump over, get hit before I land. I’m a bit away, I wavedash in and try to cancel the dash to normals, I get hit before I can.

I try to use assists to get some cover for my approach but it’s really not working. What should I do to get over this hump and getting some hits in? And yes, I know I suck and need to practice more but is there some concept I’m missing?

Any comments would be much appreciated.


#2

You have the new player syndrome. You are solely focused on landing combos and not setting them up. Go to training mode and learn everything you have to work with your team. Then start thinking “what would be a good way I could go about landing this”.

You are just going about it the wrong way. Honestly we could tell you loads of stuff and it probably wouldn’t help much. You need to learn to think for yourself and try to learn the game… that is the best way to go about things. Combos are pointless unless you know the basic fundamentals of spacing, punishing etc.

Oh and this probably didn’t need a thread of its own… could have fit into many other existing threads.


#3

This is where mix ups come in. If they are just going to keep beating your advances with hits. Just dash in and block. Jump in and do an overhead. If every thing you did got beat by something, chances are that you were being too predictable. Look at the frame data of your characters moves. I know for a fact that Taskmaster’s low attacks have ass frame advantage, so choose how and when you want to attack your opponent.


#4

Thank you for the reply.
Yeah, SF doesn’t really carry over here. Plus, I’m a gouken player and I play very much reactively, spot, anticipate and exploit opponent’s mistakes with heavy focus on spacing and zoning, so yeah, I’m no stranger to the concepts. And it’s not so much that I’m focused on landing combos, I’m just saying, that part is the easy part, it’s the rest, basically the whole game, that’s giving me problems :stuck_out_tongue:

But yeah, I’ll hit training mode and try to figure out some setups. Sometimes I wish I could just use sentinel and abuse drones to cover the approach but since I refuse to touch sent, I’m outta luck :frowning:


#5

Here is something you can work into Taskmaster:
Shoryuken - Crossing Up With Taskmaster


#6

Well there are plenty other assists in the game that are effective, and like Csword said its all about mix ups. Call out those assists to either help u advance in or catch ur opponent when they are rushing in. I was having this problem too, more in the way that I was rushing down way to hard on every character I came up against and my unsafe attacks would get stuffed.

Akuma is a wicked rushdown character though, maybe you just need the right assist to keep him on point. Or maybe you should try to reorder your team because Akuma’s tatsu is a great spammable assist.


#7

ive been where you are at since i also am a beginner at marvel but not to fighting games in general.

i had to ask myself those same questions and i was able to come up with answers. however the answers wont necessarily have you winning more… but they WILL show you where your game needs improving, practice is the only real way to improve, but having a roadmap can reduce your time put in exponentially… remember that you are cpompeteing with players that have been playing airdash based games for upwards of 10 years… so there is alot that is needed to know and commit to muscle memory.

anywho i will come back and post some of those insights when i have more time… probably tomorrow.

-dime


#8

:frowning:

-Kye


#9

that would be awesome. Seen you post alot of interesting and generally good stuff so your input would be very much appreciated man :slight_smile:

Also, thanks to CSword and SShosh, good tips :smiley:


#10

this. taskmaster can play point fairly well, so it wouldn’t be a bad idea to put him on point instead of akuma.

not sure how fair it is to make this comparison, but, your team is simliar to combofiends with akuma on point instead of she-hulk. now even though combofiend beat justin wong at fr (bionic aaarm?), his she-hulk got blown up 9 times out of 10 by justin’s, partly because of (alongside other reasons) his usage of the tron assist complimenting his she-hulk both offensively and defensively.


#11

Yeah, I know. Kinda funny cause when I watched gootecks interview combofiend his reasoning was pretty much the same as mine. I wanted cool characters, no sentinel, storm, mags or phoenix. I wanted characters that can stand on their own, “one man armies” as combofiend put it, yet still work together well. So yeah, we kinda followed the same line of reasoning :smiley:

That his she-hulk got beat was imo solely due to tron assist which together with sentinel drones are the best assists in game if ya ask me… Ah well, opinions opinions :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

[quote]

getting in is also one of my biggest weaknesses, it probably is for most beginners. trial and error are the best but since we need examples heres one:

im wolvie versus arthur, this is a hard match for me till i get a hit in. one of my primary ways to get in is i use ironmans unibeam and then IMMEDIATELY superjump… once i superjump i cancel it into a divekick… sometimes i aim to wiff arthur, most of the time i dont… this is a “textbook” way to get in… but a very obvious one. and easy to defend against if the arthur expects it and isnt currently doing something laggy like throwing 3 ground daggers (so i do this when i think he will throw ground daggers)

akuma can do the same thing by calling out ranged assist then superjumping and doing a divekick, or a much better option is to do a L air fireball on the way up… it will fall with akuma and cover his approach. he could also call out assist and then immediately follow with H demonflip.

mixup those air get in attempts with grounded dashin attempts… of course with the cover of an assist… your opponent will have a much harder time defending against that neutral game mixup… its just like streetfighter 4 where you mixup jumping in or dashing in… only you use the cover of an assist.

akumas normals are almost completely used for offense, ie blockstrings and combos. the one exception is probably his F+H hopkick.
with akuma like most rushdown characters, the normals come into play alot more once you managed to make contact with a dashin or some form of jumpin. also remember his air and ground hurricane once kind of close to the opponent… they take the place of his normals for mid range zoning.

use lots of air H fireball and ground H fireball when outside of tatsu range. try to make the opponent think about those moves before you go to get in

thats best when you think your opponent will block at the beginning of the round, cause they are scared of getting hit by crouching L.

this doesnt happen much. so stop using it… its a bad starter. airthrow while mashing assist is better and even that isnt GREAT. a good all around starter is to walk towards your opponent and if they also wallk towards jump over them (this all happens before the round starts) jumping once or twice before the round starts either backwards or forwards is probably the best overall starter for both parties cause it lends itself to the most neutral situations, on average. the opponent doesnt know whether to mash airthrow and assist cause you may jump backwards and they dont know exactly what range you wll be at when the round starts. so alot of times they will just walk backwards.

this isnt an end all be all by any means. but its one of the best ways to try to start the match at more or less a neutral situation rather than just rolling the dice on who mashes faster or mashes paper to there opponents rock.

you just need to work on your spacing, its one of the hardest things to do in marvel cause theres so much going on with characters airdashing, superjumping, ground dashing, calling helpers, spamming fireballs and beams… etc.

i also faced the problem where i would get combo’d when i tried to dash in ESPECIALLY after i or my opponent pushblocked.

people will option select a mashed crouching L in these cases alot especially if they see that you are dashing in alot… answer: dont dash in use the helper superjump/dash in pattern i described.

but of course always mix it up. they can blow that pattern up HARD with a beam super or bionic arm to your assist or whatever if you get predictable. larger and larger amounts of variation on your patterns is the key.

try not to pull out slow assists when your enemy is close to you, they will get punished. a pattern that is used often is backdash> call ranged assist> attempt get in.

this is ALOT like the streetfighter pattern with shotos that is jump backwards> land> throw fireball.

they are easy patterns to recognize. so DO NOT abuse them… but they are good in a pinch if you need breathing room to call out a slower ranged assist. generally you should use it liberally until your opponent shows that they “can see it” by supering you or something of that nature.

once you know they can see it you just jump back and do something else next time… like with akuma throw an air fireball instead of landing into an assist. or land and then immediately superjump OR H demonflip.

this will keep the opponent honest by not being able to scout any one thing. this is the basic hallmark of fighting games, make them look for one thing and then do another.

so those are some ways to go about thinking about the game, here are some “fundamentals” that you should know as well:

always have a reason why you brought a helper, but call them as much as possible as you can until your opponent shows that they can punish them reactively or in anticipation.
the more helpers you can call safely the better your chances of winning… in a nutshell.

use resets instead of always finishing your combos… smart use of resets can demolish a team, just dont go overboard.

i cant tell anyone how manyn resets to use in any given match, but a good idea is to use between 1 and 4.so basically you should try to do atleast one per match… if it works you can kill many characters from one touch into reset… for like one meter… very strong. if it doesnt work then no biggie since if it was a full health character you probably couldnt have killed them via one combo anyways unless x factored (you probably shouldnt ever reset if xfactored… risk versus reward doesnt seem to deem them worthy, though due to increased speed they are probably even more deadly)

and finally learn your characters blockbeaters:

quick overheads (iron mans tri jump M)
ground crossups (resets or something like caps cartwheel)
50/50 boxjump assist crossup (watch richard nguyens and floes dantes, they box jump crossup very well)
quick low attacks
throw setups mixed in with frame trap normals or instant air overheads
safe chip damage
frame trap versus grounded pushblock ( a somewhat advanced concept, its just like frame trapping crouchtechs in sf4 except WAY easier since you are trapping an H attack which are very slow)

for instance with wolverine i often get people trying to pushblock my first attack after they block my divekick… an easy way for me to blow that up is to just do another REALLY quick divekick. if i guessed right i do about 650 k in damage or 360 k with a reset… all for my opponent just pushblocking predictably.

anywho i know i rambled on, but i hope some of it helps.

remember its alot easier to do those above crossups and whatnot if your opponent is in blockstun from a helper. in fact thats the primary way to get off alot of those. the other way is when someone is getting up off the ground.

and also remember that knowledge doesnt make anyone better, its action and ability to apply knowledge that does.

and finally even the best laid plans get beaten… no one wins all of there games. shit happens. it happens to me, it happens to you, and it happens to justin wong.
no one is immune.

-dime


#13

@grimhammer I have the same problem in this game…I started usin my assist a lot more and found it a lot easier to get in and mix em up…let’s get a couple games in one day ill b on today aftr I get off work gt:yungmoney4418 anybody feel free to add lord knows I can use the help


#14

Beginner: Learn how to use a move

Intermediate: Learn when to use a move

Advance: Use mix ups that you make up that you consider hard as if you were trying to beat yourself. Learn what the opponent blocks or doesn’t block along with attack or doesn’t attack.


#15

What you can do is call task to cover you with arrows, and use that time to demon flip in. There, you’re in now.

How are Spencer’s assists? If they aren’t that great, I would personally use Spencer on Point, Akuma on 2nd and Task for last.


#16

I think this is well-said. I generally know what to do and how to do it, but when to do it is what I’m developing right now. I have some mix-ups but I don’t use them effectively yet and get predictable. So, I’m still squarely in the intermediate category for now.


#17

Here is how you properly play Akuma:

Step 1) do :d: :db: :b: :h:

Step 2) Repeat step 1 over and over until it hits

Step 3) cancel into hyper

Step 4) Repeat steps 1 - 3 until you win. If Akuma dies, disconnect ethernet cable from console


#18

^ You’re useless.


#19

Sadly this is how most Akuma players play. More surprisingly is this really works against a lot of players.


#20

nice av