How to master the art of Vega kara-throw

vega

#1

Sorry, I couldn’t find exactly what I need to know in the Q & A. I have also searched the forum but still can’t find the answers. So I have no choice but to start a new thread in order to get the answers I want.

Ok. It’s about the Vega kara throw. I understand that in high level Vega gameplay, kara throw is said to be a must by the experts. All the top pros videos show them using kara throws mix-up very often, especially when their opponents are pushed to a corner. I have incorporated every aspects of the Vega gameplay into my game, but as much as I train, I just could not master the art of kara throw. These are the following questions I hope the masters of kara throws can help me with…

  1. I understand that to do kara throw, I must cancel the 1st frame of standing HK to throw. How do you guys constantly do it? What is the technique you use? To me, since I am using a joystick, I must contour my right wrist in such an unnatural position in order to press the standing HK button with my little finger and then immediately the standing LP & LK for kara throw with my index finger and thumb. If I constantly contour my wrist in such an unnatural position throughout the match, it will affect my overall gameplay & combo effectiveness. I guess probably I am wrong with my input method. May I ask what is the correct and best way to input the kara throw command, so that I don’t have to contour my wrist in such an unnatural position?

  2. Ok. So presumed I have found the right method of input… but how do I get the kara throw to 100%? To cancel the 1st frame of the standing HK into throw sounds easy on paper. But it’s so damn bloody hard to get it. Even in training mode with no pressure, I can only get it 50% of the time. The rest of the time I will just do the standing HK. In a real match I would have given the opponent a FOC chance to attack me if the standing HK comes out instead of kara throw. And I will miss out a chance to attack my opponent too. I find the timing for kara throw is so damn strict that it is 10 times more difficult than performing the izuna drop. How do you guys get it to 100% success?

  3. So far I have no problem using Vega fast walk speed to get in to throw my opponent. So given the extreme difficulty of kara throw, is it worth it to incorporate it into my gameplay? I am afraid that because of trying to do kara throw, I will lose more matches because of the above factors. Is kara throw really a must among pros and high-level Vega game-play? Can a Vega player be high-level without using kara-throw?


#2

Kara throw is a must. High level players will turtle up on you and trying to crack them is very difficult. You’ll die trying. The overhead is too slow to crack someone.

Once you put the fear of being thrown over and over again into a player, they are more likely to mash reversal, jump away, back dash (giving you positional gain), etc. If it weren’t for opening up your opponent by putting the fear of being thrown to death into your opponent, many of Claw’s match ups would swing pretty heavily against his favor, as downback would defeat Claw.

I’ll let others talk to you about the technique. I still have trouble with it as well…


#3

@Nakata- Suppose I took away your ability to do ST, then how well would you do in your matches? Maybe you will say “eh probably not much of a difference” (lets assume your are playing against another Vega). But having that tool gives you more options. Gives you the ability to do somethings that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to do. Essentially more weapons make your character better.

Think of the Kara throw kind of like taking away your ST. You won’t be severely handicapped, but you would be taking away a very nice tool to have in your repertoire that helps in situations that JDH explains. It is very worth it.

Making it reliable is actually a fairly simple matter. Do you consider cr lp -> cr lp -> cr mp -> ex FBA a difficult combo to do IN a match? For me, it is not difficult because I have practiced it in training mode over and over until I memorized the timing for it. I still mess up here and there, but I am fairly accurate with it (id say around 80%). If you practice it in training mode 100 times a day, I bet youll get it down in no time.

TBH I have not mastered this technique yet either. I have been working mainly on my links which are pretty dam accurate as anyone that played me recently will tell you. I also don’t prefer throwing as it does alot less dmg than getting one of my combos or countering ppl.


#4

The kara throw is definitely way more difficult than clp clp cmp ex fba. This is a simple combo to me. Heck the kara throw is even more difficult than the advanced st lk clp cmp ex fba combo.


#5

The point was that with practice difficult things become easier to pull off and more reliable.


#6

Kara-throw is a must Period because its part of his meta-game imo. Its part of his pressure game, mix up, game, and can force opponents to do something. And depending on what they do, you can capitalize on it and put him in a bad situation again.

But you have to use it in combination with all of Vega’s tools. Its hard to explain, but keep using it. It will eventually all click in over time.

practice that intill you get it. who cares if you get punished, its just a reminder to get bettr.

and i call BS (no offense) on you saying cr.lp - cr.lp - cr.mp xx EX FBA is easier than kara-throw. i bet you get that combo 40-50% of the time, just like kara-throw.


#7

I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about with the ‘contouring my wrist’ mess.

What works for me is hitting all three buttons at the same time - but not really. I use my thumb, index, and ring finger.

Position your index finger and your thumb so that they will hit lp and lk at the same time when you drop your hand on the buttons. Extend your ring finger past the position you have your index finger and thumb, I can’t tell you exactly how much you just have to figure it out.

Let’s say you were looking at your right hand, right in front of your face, with your palm turned down towards the floor:

Index Thumb
[] []
Ring
[_]

Here’s an awful picture I drew: explain | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

You just make that formation with your hand and stab the buttons like your fingers were blades on the claw.

I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say. It’s very simple and seems natural to me.


#8

what? are you implying the izuna drop is difficult? i’m confused. anyway, try using mp instead of hk. mp kara throw doesn’t have as much range as hk kara throw(roughly half), but you may find it easier to execute. also, if you haven’t already, think of it as plinking. your’e trying to plink mp (or hk) with lp+lk, so the input should look like this:

:lp::mp::lk:
:mp:

or

:lp::lk::hk:
:hk:

you can also use mk in place of mp if that is more comfortable for you.

i use the hk kara throw except i’ll add in a mp in with the hk input as well. the mp doesn’t do anything since the hk has more priority, but the mp is just there because it feels more comfortable for me. it’ll look like this:

:lp::mp::lk::hk:
:hk:

it’ll also look like this depending on when i hit mp

:lp::mp::lk::hk::
:mp::hk:


#9

why kara throw?
just the fact that you can grab someone out of their grab range creates hella lot of mind games.
usually when you’ve established kara-throwing yer opponent, it is much easier to do counter hit setups and you could better catch them silly while they try to do st.throw techs.


#10

i use my pinky joint to hit the hk, the joint between the green and blue bone in this picture:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Scheme_human_hand_bones-en.svg
you don’t nessarily need to hit the buttons with your finger tips. i hit focus with just the middle finger. i try not to move my hand positions when pressing the buttons


#11

I’ve overlooked the kara throw for a long time, but I abused the shit out of this today, felt good. Any time I got in roughly st.lk range, the player(s) would backdash or do something to get out of range

I’m definitely going to practice this much more in training mode from now on.


#12

Am I the only pad player who uses their index finger for all four trigger buttons? SFIV was my first X box 360 game that I played so I wasn’t used to the control. I probably hold it all wrong.


#13

You guys need to get sticks. It helps - a lot.

Links become easier, CH > ST is a piece of cake, BHC motion is easier and kara throw is easier imo due to button placement.


#14

I think with little things like this. Just merely SHOWING your opponent “Yeah, I know I can do this, now you do too.” It can make them think twice about things. Quite a little mind trick right there. It can be done with several little bits, just simply letting your opponent know you know something and can do it definitely can change things.

Must disagree though on Kara throw being “Easier” on stick. I’d say depending on your button placement, they’re about even on pad and stick. I used to have my face buttons the standard so I could two button tap the focus/throws. my HK would be on R1. So it was just a simple slip of the finger to make it come out.


#15

What I did was reassign roundhouse to L1 on my TE stick and throw to L2. That way I can use buttons I wouldn’t normally use, exclusively for kara throwing.


#16

tis funny i consider 3 one frame links difficult ,

While I get kara-throw pretty much 8/10 , that is a lot more consistent than say cr.mk – st.lk – st.lk – cr.mp that i get 1/50.

I use a stick with 2 thumb button for throw and focus and do the same as pedo, I lower thumb and ring-finger together with a few mm advance for the ring finger. the hk gets naturally pressed earlier.


#17

I do too, index for RH (right bumper) and thumb for throw(lp+lk). I land it equally on pad and stick. Has anyone else noticed that it feels easier in match rather than practice?..maybe it’s just me


#18

No bindings, when SSF4 arcade comes out and I have to play that for offline competition , I have to be able to do it 9/10 on a regular 6 button stick, thats my goal at least.

It’s fucking pringles when you fail a kara and get a counter-hit st.hk , i wonder if we can link anything off that.


#19

vega’s kara throw is so easy to do on standard xbox controller it almost feels like cheating, on the flip side i have major problems with CH > ST especially if I’m on P2 side.


#20

@alex

no i do that to alex

@chuck

no you cant. the counter hit properties only count for the first hit.