How would you fix the "Staged Match" problem?


#21

[S]Pics of it before he deletes the twits, i am on my office so i can’t see them right now :/[/S]

Thanks


#22

yeah, Viscant isn’t happy about it at all. Been reading some of his FB posts since yesterday, and he’s right though. This kinda shit can kill the entire scene.

from team spooky:


#23

It’s true. The people defending ChrisG aren’t looking at the big picture. It probably doesn’t help that he hasn’t been around as long to see the scene grow from its humble beginnings. If he wasn’t there from the beginning, he’s not going to appreciate the scene as much as someone like Valle does.


#24

Ok…

So in regards to the actual act of pot splitting (between ANY two players in ANY tourney setting) I do NOT believe that it is an act of depravity or a heinous crime. In fact, Jay Snyder

(https://www.facebook.com/Viscant/posts/454712361272211 - there’s more to the post so please read completely)

made a good point on his facebook in response to this in regard to life’s natural demands for survival including rent and such being a focal point in the decision making process. Bottom line, what you do with the money you earned is absolutely your business. Period.

However, as was mentioned before you have to look at the “bigger picture” and the “crowd perspective” in how you EXECUTE these types of decisions. We already know that the FGC (as well as other communities) have been plagued with issues for years with things such as pot-splitting, thrown matches, gate-keeping, and the like. These things have existed for years and won’t be going away anytime soon and that’s whatever. No big deal. The issue is how things are handled when they DO occur.

Perfect example? The Jago/Mike Ross “scandal.” We all know the story: fake rivalry started… instigated… and then put to the test at critical moments with “Why we hate you” and that SFxT show where that who Ares scandal happ… Back on topic. This whole faux rivalry imo was done RIGHT. I’d compare the entire situation with that of WWE. Anyone who actually KNEW these guys or knew them enough could tell that the whole thing was staged/not intense as some believed but was more of a marketing ploy with a personal twist. Even so, the way that everything was done up to the Arutro Scandal (damn FGC… seeing a pattern?) was AMAZING. Smack talk coming from both sides, events put together to further the rivalry along and make it more believable, and people being called out. It was somewhat surreal as you knew what you were watching wasn’t real but it was still entertaining and new for the FGC which made it fun. Then the truth came out… and people went mad.

Now I sit and wonder sometimes if that video of Arturo’s HADN’T come out, would the people who believed the whole thing remained believers? I would think so as I myself had to “move the mirrors” and “vacuum away the smoke” for some as it was. I even think that if the truth hadn’t come out the way it did but still came out regardless people would have been A-ok with it as well. It was all in the presentation. Now could Mike and Jago already have had decided on what to do and when to do it from the very jump? Likely. Actually… quite likely if you ask me. But did that make their intentions “evil” or “destructive” in form? No. In fact I think it was done for the EXACT opposite reason. Things were looking stale in the FGC and this was something that really livened it up for awhile.

The point I’m trying to make here is that there are some practices that some partake in that may “seem” less then stellar but can be swallowed and accepted by at least a few if not all when they are done right. Pot splitting is one of those things. The act in itself hasn’t really sprung a lot of anger/resentment for the players but it’s the performance that went along with it. It’s like if Jago and Mike were starting the whole rivalry thing but the day after they came back from a vacation in Hawaii. -_- nobody would ever believed in it at all.

So what’s the solution? Ban pot splitting? - No. Ban Collusion - No. Ban the players? - No.

Honestly, I don’t believe anything needs to be banned whatsoever. What I do however feel is the need for a few rules/guidelines to be set in place to preserve the quality of the matches/games/individuals/entities involved. Here are a few:

  1. Whenever the situation arises, the players involved need to come to this consensus OFF-SCREEN. This means that by the time the players reach the stage (even if it means having to leave the stage preemptively to do so) the two have already decided how they plan to handle the monetary situation. If they DO plan on splitting nobody but them should know about it. Period. Money is a personal matter and should be handled thus and without outside interference.

  2. If a pot-split/thrown game is decided between the players, then the parameters around that match/set should be established. Let’s be honest… VERY few of us and even very few of the top players are CONSISTENTLY in top 8/16, not everybody likes each other, and there is NO guarantee that the two players would ever meet in tourney so the chances of this occurring and reoccurring BETWEEN DIFFERENT PLAYERS is low. Usually if it is done, it is between the same people or same set of people at the very least.

For those that DO make it high enough for this to be a constant issue, if pot-splitting is an option you’re always ready to consider then shouldn’t you be talented enough to know how to slightly throw off your game to skew the outcome incognito? I don’t think anyone would be upset if you “accidentally” dropped your “super pressured” game winning combo due to your “nerves” getting the better of you. Or “veeeery slightly” miscalculating the distance between you and your opponent thus whiffing an unsafe move." Shit. In the time it took me to get where I am now I know I have failed countless times at practicing something by just a tiny margin only after extensive practice getting it down right so why not abuse that fact. We already know Marvel (this happens in other games yes but it’s MOST prevalent in Marvel as the game is SO random that one mistake CAN literally end your entire game/set so people are more reasonable to the request) is hella random so a mistake like those mentioned wouldn’t even get a second glance from most. Those of us who watch our fav players might know sure but we would understand the situation and appreciate the effort in the facade anyway.

I mean at the very least you can use the matches to show off your new teams/tech/counters you’ve been working on and use them against each other for hypeness or knowledge for the community. Shit anything but being blatantly obvious about your intentions would be ok. I just feel that the creative ideas are out there but just aren’t being utilized. Nobody is thinking outside of the box at all on this and the blatant lack of effort or even care I feel is what struck most of the viewers/attendees the hardest. Keep you money, you worked for it. Just end it with a bang is all we ask.

I feel as those these requests are more than doable and can easily be done within minutes of showtimes; maybe even before. I DO however feel that the penalty for NOT upholding these guidelines but blatantly disregarding them and continuing to behave as the standard is currently subjects the player to a penalty. What penalty is not for me to decide but here are a few suggestions:

(most extreme) - forfeit of all prizes and money/Disqualification

(still pretty extreme) - Have the 3rd + 4th place winners fight GF INSTEAD for a small portion of the GRAND prize money. (a pot-split tax if you will if it’s shown that this is the intent thus providing a better reasoning to keep these things to yourself)

(less but still extreme) - forfeit of all prizes and money OTHER then prize money (so no seeding points, free sticks, free games, etc etc).

(moderate) - A forced “re-do” of the set for both players.

(moderate) - Don’t show/stream the GF. Give the players’ their prizes and tell everyone to go home. I bet everyone would hear about the Major that didn’t have a GF in it for any reason along with the removal of any potential use for that footage for monetary/etc reasons.

(gimmicky but possibly effective) - If it’s publicly shown that it’s a pot-split, have the person in charge of the stream/tvs display something to BLATANTLY show that this is what is going on by the players so EVERYONE who has anything to do with the event in any way (viewers/streamers/attendees/sponsors/etc) knows what’s going on and who in particular are participating in it. Maybe the mass amount of hate mail and lost fans would stop.

These are just a few ideas and AGAIN I am NOT against pot-splitting, just the attitude and blatant display of it without the thought of any others involved.


#25

^^ bingo

simply put, if you wanna pot split, whatever…it’s sad that we got people relying on tournament money to get by, but that’s another discussion.

but if you are going to split, do it behind the scenes and be man enough to at least put on a good fucking show.


#26

At this point, i am willing to say that he plays mostly for the money rather for the pleasure and thrill of high level competition, he is a talented player don’t get me wrong, and i am pretty sure that he likes playing fighting games, but you can see the traces of this kind of mentality on his behavior :confused:

There is nothing bad about trying to get money doing something that you like, but there is a need to understand that there are certain actions could lead to negative consequences, at least if they are planning to do this kind of stuff, don’t make it that obvious, and if you get caught don’t act on a way that just makes it worse.


#27

This is the correct stance that a sponsor/supporter of events and players should take.

I love that people are so quick to say “fuck everyone else, they are the ones that made it and they can do what they want. This is about them”

Ok, cool. See how quickly these guys shape up when their sponsors decide to actually reprimand and punish this, or altogether drop them. Guys like Chris G may literally think twice if they have to foot the bill for travel and hotel, along with using the win money for bills.

They are representing their sponsors, and half assed bullshit while laughing it off is basically a slap in the face. If I’m going to sponsor you, you should be playing your ass off when there are that many people watching. I don’t give a fuck if you pot split, but you best play out your match and show that you are WORTH sponsoring. Using an alt team to give people something different to see? That’s cool too, but PLAY the fucking team.

How much shit did AGE/PDP get from fanatiq acting like a moron? How much MORE shit did they get from not following through with any sort of punishment even though Sebastien stated that “it will be dealt with”? It may all be facebook/twitter games, but you best believe that people will have it in the back of their mind when they see the AGE tag or any promo codes, and potentially think twice about buying something.

That’s cool, considering most of the sponsors who decide to lay down their money to support a tournament plan to do so because of the viewership, which a majority comes from said stream monsters and spectators… but fuck them too, right?

Don’t worry though, let this shit run, people already turn off their stream before GF’s because they expect this behavior. How long until they don’t tune in at all? Viewership goes down, there goes the sponsors, there goes large ass tournaments because it becomes entirely out of pocket for the organizers.


#28

Not disagreeing with you per se, but your suggestions mostly involve people doing loads of extra work to get around an offense that is not officially recognized or enforced. What’s more, when things look legit, people will say, “Man did you see how Player X came out on top in that last match? Player Y has fallen off his/her game lately, and Player Z is probz better by now.” When people think the match is legit, then the criticism also comes along being meaningful. It might seem petty, right, but when you watch a deliberately staged match, NOBODY leaves thinking that one player got the better of the other player; everyone is more or less intact.

And that’s the rub.

The status quo is preserved. It’s the fact that nothing is getting done and the likelihood that nothing will happen that maybe isn’t the cause for this behavior, but it definitely presents an environment that fosters this type of behavior.


#29

“If you don’t like it, beat them” oversimplifies the situation so much that it’s not even worth bringing up.

Not disagreeing or agreeing but that argument sucks.

They don’t go hand in hand but the number one reason why people stage matches is because of the money. There’s nothing you can do with the money, though, so another kind of solution needs to be found that deals directly with the lack of effort in split GFs.


#30

I would think the players involved losing some of their reputation would be something of a deterrent but otherwise what else could you do? Block them from x number of tournaments?


#31

I don’t personally know Chris, but he seems pretty hard to reason with because he seems really bad at articulating his thoughts.
case and point: biasism


#32

It was a non-issue because TOs and sponsors didn’t care.

Now sponsors care, TOs will follow suit. Now it’s an issue.

Please pay extra special attention to the word collusion being used.


#33

It’s kind of old and not about FGs but LoL (cue “EEEE-SPORTS”), but I thought the writer made some good points about collusion and stuff like that:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/08/27/yes-esports-needs-sportsmanship-too/


#34

I chalk it up to youth. Most of us do or say stupid shit when we’re in our teens-20s. We just don’t have the wisdom to look at the big picture.

Which brings me to a question: How old is Justin? I thought he would’ve known better since he’s been in the game for a long time.


#35

Have the winners kill and eat the losers.


#36

I thought ChrisG was from the EC? I’m stunned when he talked about tournaments taking too long or having to wake up too early or being tired or frazzled. What kind of pampered life style are we accustomed to these days and why? The grimy stench-ridden East Coast shitholes I went to over the year have been badly run as fuck but they were run out of love and they were played at out of pride and they fucking ruled.

Yes, exactly. “You are not welcome here” lets you reclaim your scene from those that wish to pervert it for their own ends.

People tend to continue behavior that benefits them personally until such time as the negative consequences outweigh the gain. A lot of people are selfish bastards like that when the situation presents itself. If you want to stop what others might perceive as ‘selfish’ or antisocial or anti-‘scene’ behavior, make sure there are consequences. Without that, you’re just yelling at the clouds to stop their damned raining.

Companies stepping up and forcing TO’s (who are often just ignorant/unprepared to deal with this kind of stupid) to adhere to minimum player standards of excellence is a pretty excellent way to push things forward. I love MarkMan/MadCatz for stepping up there, and feel like all other sponsors should too. Create a universalized rule set (with certain tournament-specific options available as necessary), agree to it, abide by it, and move on.


#37

http://www.rtsguru.com/game/435/article/3865/LoL-Joke-Game-at-MLG-Disqualifies-Dignitas-and-Curse.html

This needs to be applied on all tournaments, Just like MLG.


#38

Bottom line is, beat them or be quiet. No disrespect, but the only way you are going to stop it is to crush them.


#39

Why would these players be embarrassed about that? (since they won’t be seeing it anyway and its more free publicity) Shit, ChrisG might not even be embarrassed by the Kyo player at NCR nonstop down Hard Punch jumping at him in KOFXIII destroying him since he went on to do the random select thing in Grand Finals in another tournament vs Reynald I think.

I… we don’t play Primal Rage anymore!


#40

The TOs that I know have always hated it.
Banning the players involved has a huge negative effect on the banning event, because people are less likely to show up to or respect or watch an event that these players will not be at; EVEN if they aren’t at the event because of their own rule breaking action.

**The actions being taken are in a way the opposite of what needs to happen, you don’t need sponsors and people saying we won’t support an event or players involved in this type of activity. What you need are sponsors and people saying that thet won’t abandon the event that bans these players for misconduct; because for all of this talk, as things stand now, the event that actually goes through on disciplinary action is still at risk of taking a big hit in attendance and viewership by people who will then find it to be a less exciting or entertaining event to attend or watch.
**