How's Ken top tier?

Air fireballs are free parries. If you just walk over to him and parry his air balls he’ll go nuts.

Air fireball is a jump-in attack that you can’t anti-air out of. You can parry it but it puts you at the exact position the Akuma wants you to be.

edit: everyone likes picking on little things I say lately, so I’ll state that you can Shinryuken thru air fireballs but in general Air Fireball is a good jump in.

air fb is good if you know how to use it right…
of course it sucks if you jump in and do random fb early since they can parry and punish… but if you do it late then they can’t do nothing even if they parry it…

A LOT of people say the reason his many links/cancels to super are his best attribute, but when you really look at it, there aren’t all THAT much, at least compared to any other shoto.

Cr. Forward to super
All shotos have this. Besides, it should only be used to punish if it’s the only thing that can. Having it blocked is BAD (as in bad for ken). In fact, out of all the shotos, Ken’s super is the worst to be blocked. This is USUALLY the only way you’ll block Ken’s super.

Cr. Strong to super
This is one of the links Ken has over the others. It IS indeed good, seeing as how it’s fast and beats out stuff.

Far Standing Strong to super
Another link that Ken has over the others. Decent speed and beats out stuff like cr. strong. It doesn’t work on those that can crouch it though, such as Chun.

Close Strong Fierce to super
People don’t realize that this combo has LITTLE range. This has nice damage, but you’re only gonna get hit by it if

  1. You got stuffed by the strong.
  2. You guess parried low on wake up (which you should almost never do).
    Block it and Ken’ll be off of you, plus you’ll have advantage.

Cr. shortshort super
Same with above, except the opposite of 2. It has more range than close strong though. All shotos have this.

B+forward to super
His overhead link. It’ll probably only hit if you weren’t paying attention.

When people say he has a good high/low mixup, I have no idea what they’re talking about. He has good mixups with throws, but all shotos do.

well yes all shotos share similar qualities with Ken, but Ken don’t share the flaws of the shotos. Akuma’s low stamnia for one, Ryu’s generally slower speed and crappy cross-over jumping mk, and Sean’s everything that makes him lowtier.

Yes Ken has an inferior karathrow and some other low-points, but out of the Shotos he is the best candidate for a toptier.

I M H O.

I know he is top tier, but I’m just trying to make people realize WHY before they go all “Ken is cheap/braindead/whatever, period”.

Ken scrubs suck the MOST out of all scrubs who use top tiers.

You can cancel the air fireball parry into shoryuken. And since Gouki then is real close you can (kara)shoryuken him again after that.

The horizontal speed of the super is a big deal. He can punish many things at many ranges that the other shotos can’t (well, sean can with SAIII but I will not even consider that).

Emphy: yes, the other shotos have almost all of Ken’s hitonfirms to super. But the fact that his super charges faster and he can store 3 of them is another advantage over Ryu and Gouki

and since everyone can kara shoryukens consistantly, that is a valid arguement, right?

B+MK and f+HK may not be the fastest overheads in the game, but if they ever do hit, they’re extremely easy hit confirms into super. Overhead hit confirms into super is always a great option to have, something none of the other shotos possess(I guess UOH) . MP>HP is great, great hit confirm to super and big damage without any meter whatsoever(kara srk). It’s recovery is pretty good for a target combo that’s this flexible.

Yes, it is. If you can’t kara shoryuken consistantly you should practice. It isn’t THAT hard or anything.

But, if Gouki wants to “prevent Ken a free parry” Ken shouldn’t need to kara.

okkkkkkk then.

so what if akuma jumps BACK and do fireballs? ha!!

You still get a free parry! HAHA!!

k i give up you win.

ummm.

some of the best Ken players don’t even kara Shoryuken all the time. if you watch Daigo vs. Justin from last year’s EVO, you’ll see that Daigo missed all of his attempts to land a kara Shoryuken. so i guess he should practice more, yeah? that’s but one example.

if it’s as easy as you claim, every single Ken vs. whoever can be kara Shoryukened midscreen match should have lots of double Shoryukens. well, provided the Ken player knows how to do it.

:rock:

emphy you forgot one more way to get hit by strong fierce. you tried to throw ken, because ken throws you to death.

Emphy, can you elaborate on what you feel Kens strengths are? And If you’re feeling spry, his weaknesses? You seem to have A LOT of 3s know how, and Im interested in your take on Ken. If you,ve already done this elsewhere please link.
thnx

Kal el: kara srk is easy compared to the stuff I’d have to pull off with Akira in VF just to get through the combos and series section of the tutorial.

It demands a knee(K+G, release G after 1 frame). Compared to that kara srk is a lot easier.

Epsilon: I KINDA included it, in terms of stuffing an attack (which could be throw or cr. jab if you tried to crouching tech).

ant one: His strength is his well-roundedness, which others have already said on here. He is NOT “cheap”. Spamming one move really gets you nowhere with Ken. You use ALL of his moves, at the right times. He IS 3s, and has everything from links to tick throw mixups and more.
His weakness (pretty much his only one if any) is that he IS a normal character with pokes that CAN be beat by other pokes. Chun has a lot of pokes that beat a lot of Ken’s pokes, which is why she’s usually considered Ken’s counter character. To beat a good Ken, you have to outsmart him and punish what whiffs or whatnot. Tech his throws, so he doesn’t play his buff wake-up game, but be careful/smart about it. Look for the little openings you have, such as his dash or jump. Good Kens know where to place their dashes/jumps, which makes it all the more harder. These are just general 3s tips, but Ken IS 3s, so it makes sense.

A SMART (IMPORTANT KEY WORD) Ken is top tier because you can’t beat him with anything other than general 3s tactics. There’s no real way to specifically beat him.

come to think of it, it’s kinda true. there’s no real way to specifically beat him.

and Goldreaver, you can’t compare a 3D fighter with a 2D fighter, especially when it comes to execution. VF gives you so much leeway for all the combos, especially preset ones. It does require you to do SRK or Charging motions (except for a couple instances like Rage’s uppercut) but generally it does not require much coordination of your left and right hands.

I’m not saying I can’t do kara SRK, or that you can’t do it. I’m saying not everyone (especially those seeking help in this forum) can do it. Let alone, consistantly.

I fucking win. Now Screw off.