HP Flame Setup

dhalsim

#1

It’s time to update a setup I discover few months ago with new chars and give you more info.
The HP flame setup is a shortcut for Forward/Neutral Grab + meaty HP Flame Setup. I think it’s the only way to use this move with horrible startup but good frame advantage (+2 on block).

The first thing to know is the great buff damage the HP flame receive in SSF4: from 100 to 170. This means that a counterhit will do an incredible 212 damage! Also a blocked HP flame is increased from 25 to 42, more than hitting with b.lk.

This setup is char specific and works only in some situation. Most of them is when your opponent has no EX bar.
The goal is to surprise your opponent, try to hit (or counterhit) his reversal or simply do a good chip damage. Knowing against which chars will work, it could guarantee free damage with no risk.
The setup cannot be forward/backdashed and is armor breaking and cannot be focused. You can add super because HP flame is an hit confirm.

  1. HP Flame Setup beat/trade vs all special moves (normal and ex) of these chars:
  • Dhalsim (but he can teleport back)
  • El Fuerte (but he can safely Guadalope EX, but he loses 1 bar)
  • M.Bison (but he can teleport back, he can headstomp EX and you can block. Read here).
  • Makoto
  • Rose
  1. HP Flame Setup Beat/trade vs all normal special moves (NOT EX!) of these chars:
  • Abel
  • Blanka
  • C.Viper (trade with Thunder Knuckle HP: 170 vs 70)
  • Chun Li
  • Cody
  • Dudley
  • Gen
  • Gouken
  • Guy
  • Hakan
  • Ibuki
  • Rufus
  • Sakura
  • T.Hawk
  • Vega
  • Zangief

The rest of the cast have at least one normal special move that beat the setup.
I’m not considering super and ultra 1 & 2 in this list.

Other use:

  1. HP Flame Setup beats/trades the following ultras:
  • Gen Ultra1 (only Crane version)
  • Ibuku Ultra1
  • Chun Li Ultra2 (trade in Sim’s favour: 15 damage!)
  • Abel Ultra2
  • Hakan Ultra 2 (Whiff)
  • T.Hawk Ultra 2 (Whiff)
  • Adon Ultra1 (Whiff)

Here’s an example to use this info.
You’re fighting versus Chun Li that has chosen U2, and you’re leading the game. She’s almost dead. You grab her. Then just look at her EX bars… does she get one or more? No? Ok, do an HP meaty with no risk!

Here’s a VIDEO of the setup:
[media=youtube]MAUXgMaQo9I"[/media]

NEW SETUP:

Backthrow grab + LIAT + Flame MP/EX

Can be useful if you’re just escaped from the corner and want to change side doing chip damage.
The cons are the close situation after flame, and the char limitation.
This setup is very good versus charge characters. They are unable to use any back-forward moves because you mess their charge with teleport and they haven’t time to charge again in the other direction. They still can use down,up moves (Dictator can punish flame with stomp KK).

I suggest to do versus C. Viper:
she can only punish it with burning kick EX and ultra1. But it beats seismo EX and trade with TK)


#2

Sounds pretty damn interesting. Video?


#3

been doing this after reading this thread. i think it’s pretty good to use when you get a neutral throw early in the match. before chars have ex.


#4

Video plz!


#5

I thought It was not necessary.
I’ve uploaded it right now, the link is on the first post :wink:


#6

Really good against Bison.

Good info, man


#7

if u go back on or 2 steps the shoryuken will not complete
i mean to be in distance that flame can hit , but not to be very close to ryu or ken
i use this trick alot, but u dont have much time to go back when they do quck stand, also this worked for me with lp flame
never tried it with HP, but i think its the same


#8

No… Hp flame is so slow in startup that if opponent quick stands, he has a lot of time to jump it and punish.
I’ve just tested to grab then go back 1-2 steps and use flame lp or mp but it doesn’t work well, mp shoryuken still hit.


#9

How to use H.Yoga Flame after an opponent knockdown?

H.Yoga Flame deals 42 damages when it was blocked. So I think it’s a good idea to use when an opponent knockdown, but depend on characters and distance. Such as Ryu and Ken can ex.shoryuken to counter but i don’t sure if dhalsim stand far enough, it may not be countered by ex.shoryuken.


#10

you get punished on recovery for more damage if you try this. Even if an ex-shoryu can’t catch you a c.mk will punish you and we all know that you can c.mp, hadoken (or hadoken ex cancel ultra) and you’ll receive a lot more damage than how many you’ll deal. And you’ll probably lose your zoning


#11

I do as Arturo says, on opponents with bad wake-up options or with no meter for those safe wake-up options, I take advantage and do a meaty H flame. It can even catch some backdashes, as the flame travels so far. Funny thing, when C Vipers does her EX siesmo her invincibility frames wear off before the seismo comes out, and she’ll just east a counterhit hard yoga flame.

If I’m feeling ballsy I’ll do it regardless, and sometimes I’ll stand right next to them pretending Ill do it just to let them DP on wakeup and punish even harder.


#12

The whole point is that you do it on characters with poor wakeups. It’s +2 on block, so you can actually go for a grab afterwards and re-start the cycle.


#13

H.Yoga Flame 's +2 frame on block. So the opponent can do nothing if he blocks.
I’m searching the way to use it on right distance and proper characters.


#14

You guys might want to check out this thread:
http://shoryuken.com/f255/hp-flame-setup-234412/


#15

i do this trick 1 year now, 80% it hits 20% blocked , but i dont spam it
with shoto’s you must go 2 steps back ( not dash ) this will be 100% safe ( they can ultra tho )


#16

Could you post a video showing it’s safe?
As I wrote in the HP flame Setup thread, it seems not work.


#17

when you go 2 steps back , u must use the lp flame, not the hp
its still good, not much damage as hp
2 steps back and hp flame wont work

try it with lp flame, and its 100% safe or trade depends on timing, against shoryuken (not the EX)


#18

aaaah ok, lp has a decent startup lol
However use mp flame: it’s just -1 on block and deals more chip damage. The startup is quite the same as lp. Lp flame has -6 on block, so it’is not safe versus Ryu’s super, Yoga Shangrila and probably Balrog st.lp (plink cr.hk) and so on.


#19

Have any of the good Sims here tried to do the HP flame over a Shoto or other DP having character and FADC back to bait a dp for a punish? I thought of it this week and was going to try it out on the akuma/ken players im going to run into and see what kind of response it gets out of them.

Also freakin sweet its so safe vs. bison that matchup gives me fits.


#20

I think you’ve to bait it only if you’re ready to punish with U1. This can justify two ex bars. Try it and tell us :wink: