HP Kongoshin does not have 1f invincible startup, but EX/MP/LP does?

gouken

#1

Last night I was fighting this Ibuki player, he got a hard knockdown and, as expected, he tried to begin the kunai vortex, so I thought “it’s okay, just wakeup HP Kongoshin (for parrying high attacks) and I’ll get rid of the pressure”, and consequently did it but the kunai hit me anyway plus he registered a Counter-Hit, so at the end of the combo I was again on a hard knockdown. Supposing that what happened was that I have input the HP Kongo motion wrong, I did it again on my next wakeup for countering the begining of the next kunai vortex, with the same results as before.

After that match, which I lost mainly because I was mindfucked about what happened, I went to training mode, and discovered that had I use EX/MP Kongo against the meaty kunai the parry works OK, but if I use HP Kongo, you always get hit and a Counter-Hit is registered. I did some more tests with other meaty setups (like Seth’s Sonic Boom after U1) and the same happened: HP Kongo was not working and registering Counter-Hits, but all the other versions worked fine.

Also, LP Kongo also does seem to have this 1f invul. startup, tested with a meaty Rose slide on Gouken’s wakeup.

I can only deduct that LP/MP/EX Kongo have its 1f startup with invulnerability on wakeup, but HP Kongo does not have this property. After some more tests, *MP Kongo was working on any situation where HP Kongo did *(after some more tests this statement has extra situational details, see the EDIT part).

  • EDIT - I have discovered that, if it’s not on wakeup meaty situations, HP Kongo parries more easily high attacks than MP Kongo, because I have right now Ibuki recorded as Neutral Jump -> Mid Kunai, and if you delay the input to the last moment possible before the kunai hits you, the MP Kongo got a Counter-Hit from time to time and does not work, but HP Kongo works always. This whole stuff is quite weird. Seems so situational.

#2

No kongo has invincibility AFAIK. The reason HP Kongo does not work on Kunai is because the counter box is so small. The kunai knife hitbox is probably well past the activation box by the time you wakeup.

Sonic boom doesn’t go high enough to use HP kongo at any time, does it?

One of the biggest complaints about the kongo change made in AE was that the HP kongo didn’t work as advertised. People could jump at you, and if they hit you below the neck when you HP counter (the one SUPPOSED to be for air attacks) it would bypass the activation box and register a counterhit. same thing for crossups since they usually hit deep.

This is supposedly fixed in 2012, but we’ll see.


#3

Oh thanks for the info, now it does make sense. Hope they fix it on ver. 2012. They just should see if the other guy is airborne, and then make HP Kongo works always if he is.


#4

If you look in the AE moveset thread there is a pic of the kongo hitboxes for reference, just in case you are interested.


#5

the third kongo hit box forces you to use ex kongo more often.
jump ins can avoid hp or mp kongo and high ground moves can counter hit over mp. kongo.
if you want kongo to work, you pretty much have to suck it up, use the meter and hope that ex kongo stays out long enough.


#6

Yeah it’s because the Kunai goes in deep so when you get up it’s not hitting your head (HP Kongo) It’s hitting your shoulders (MP Kongo)

It won’t get ‘fixed’ per se, but the extended hitbox we’re getting in 2012 could result in it still being in HP range, so it could help.