Hrm, apprently you can kill someone with a Counter Attack


Last night in the arcade, I was playing my N-Groove Hibiki against what I think was an A-Blanka or Cammy, I can’t quite remember.

They activated, missed their string, and then I proceeded to counter out of it while they were still in CC mode. They had either 0 life or next to it.

Out came the counter, and we traded hits. The thing that I insinctively noticed immediately is that I KOed the other guy with a counter attack. I am 100% sure that this was the case.

My theory on this: Unless it was a character-specific bug (on my Hibiki or their character), you might be able to kill someone who is in CC mode in A-Groove with a Counter Attack.

I tried to verify this at home with the GameCube version, but I couldn’t duplicate it, probably because it isn’t arcade perfect. Can we get someone with a Dreamcast to double check this for me?

This could potentially be a huge development and something for A-Groove players to worry about if it turns out to be true.

Oh, P.S., My website, Finest KO ( will soon have up an article detailing all the character’s Counter Attacks, including which ones juggle or combo, general AC strategy, and the frame data for everyone, as soon as my bible gets here. Just a heads up on that for you.


Could it have been a mp/mk came out instead of the counter? Thats the only other thing I can think of.


Could be because it traded…?


I’m sure it wasn’t just your sanity lapsing when you came down off the acid trip that you were clearly on while playing CvS2 late night . Hitting up the gonje!? It wasn’t a counter-attack . Trust me . GC’s cant kill! JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE!

Shoryuken’s Through a Truck

“Yay!” V Pose!


Nope. MP + MK = MK, so if it wasn’t a counter, Hibiki would have turned around and stuck out her sword scabbard, a move that takes a really long time to come out. So that’s not it.

I really don’t see why this would matter, since a Counter Attack is still one even if it trades hits. The game should know that it’s a hit that can’t kill.

If you don’t have anything smart to say, it’s best not to say anything.

I would still like someone to verify this on a Dreamcast if possible.


Are you insinuating that my comment was not useful and or intelligent? GCA’s . CANT KILL SOMEONE. PERIOD. Its a special attack, that only does about 600 dmg, and can’t put someone into negative hitpoints. Why don’t you just experiment and try and recreate this “Super special” KO with a GCA?


I am fully aware of the properties of a Counter Attack. I’m writing a detailed article on them as we speak. (By the way, not all ACs do 600… Maki’s does 660.)

There yet might be a glitch or some otherwise unknown property of them. The game is only three years old, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s still a quirk or two in it that we don’t know about.

I know it sounds crazy, but I’m certain what happened, happened. I wouldn’t be posting it here if I wasn’t absolutely sure about it. Half of the reason why I’m asking everyone else is to make sure I’m not crazy.

I did try to recreate this in a number of ways on the GameCube, but it’s known that the GC and Xbox versions of the game aren’t the same as the arcade and arcade-perfect DC translation. It would be like saying roll cancels don’t exist because you can’t do them on an Xbox.

I’ll keep investigating, but I would appriciate it if other people would help me out with this as well.

(I really hope this doesn’t drive me crazy for the rest of my life.)


i fail to see the importance of this? so yea it could possibly kill you off a fluke when you have a speck of life left :rolleyes:


Speaking of this type of thing…
something happened yesterday, I had K Kyo i think, Vs. C Chun i think, not sure. But everytime i did a jab DP the hits traded but Chun never died, and she had practically no life at all. Its where you can’t see the bar but its still there for some reason.

Are you talking about counter hits or Alpha Counters?

Im talking about a trading counter hit.

I have the DC version.


Counter Attacks/Alpha Counters are the same thing. I say Counter Attack because that’s what the game calls them.

Note that a player doesn’t die until their life is less than zero. ACs (normally) reduce life to exactly zero, which is why they aren’t supposed to kill you. Even though it looks like someone should be dead, they always have a little bit of life left. You might have heard the term “the magic pixel,” and this is where it comes from.

I should say though, my Counter Attack (Alpha Counter) did trade with the other guy when it did come out. I really don’t think that was the reason why my AC KOed him.

I still think it has something to do with the fact that they were in A-Groove CC mode.


Oh okay, I was talking about the trading counter hit.


If it happened, only things I can think of are:

  1. Counter hit = 20% more damage, though ACs do hit on CH a lot… =/

  2. The trade somehow disabled the “AC can’t kill” rule, like maybe it’s no longer considered a AC. Like how if you trade with a juggle state setup move, the juggle state ends- maybe you’re in like AC state when doing it, and trading ends it?

Dunno. Random ideas. Could also have to do with CC state, who knows…


could it be that the trade of the alpha cancel WHILE ON CC MODE created a glitch>?


Personally. I think it was just a fluke / something else. Move on, forget about it .


The way I see it it HAS to be because of the counter hit. Lets say your opponent is at 500hp exactly. They super, you AC (at this point the game sees there 500hp, so AC does 500 dmg to put them to zero life.) BUT, you guys trade and you get counter hit 20% extra damage, so your AC actually does 600 dmg, killing them.

The problem with this is that AC are often counter hits anyway, and they don’t kill people. Maybe it only because it traded… dunno. If you can remember the thingy you AC’d, try it again next time you’re at the arcade and attempt to trade a AC with it. I’d try it myself but alas, also GC version at home.

If this does work and is not an irregular bug but can actually be used properly, it will OWN. Being able to AC for death means many grooves (coughAcough) have to fear using there super when they are at low life. Next time you block a raged Shinkuu Hadouken, AC that guy to death. That would be sweet.


It’s a shame you can’t remember the exact situation. Or even the character for that matter. :confused:

Did you get a special finish or anything?


No, it was a normal KO.

I’m starting to think it was against an A-Cammy. I know the reason why I did the AC was to get them down to 0 health and then to kill them with chip damage, but what suprised me was the fact that I killed them on the spot.

After thinking about it for a bit, it might indeed have something to do with them being in CC mode and trading hits with them. I’m going to try and duplicate this again on my GameCube and try to get a hit trade (though it’s hard to do by myself).


could it be that you accedently pushed mp then mk and only the mp came out and the trade happen befor you could see or notice the animation? just maybe human errror created this, but i agree with swift, its a fluke, forget about it.


You can’t fluke in the programming. Either he’s remembering incorrectly and it mas just a mp or somethin, or you can kill with a counter hit. It can’t be a fluke that can only happen once.


Eh. I was tryin it the other day, can’t kill. Can take someone down to no life, but not kill em.