Hsf2:ae


#1

With Hyper SF2 Anniversary Mega Ultra Whatever Edition out there, I’m curious as to how all these old games stack up against each other.

I haven’t seen a thread for it yet except for one in FG forums, so I figured I’d post one here.

So I guess first thing people try to do it to make tiers. I don’t think I could even try, if anything because there’s so many different version of the characters… How many Chun Li’s are there? WW.ChunLi, CE.ChunLi, HF.ChunLi, SSF2.ChunLi, N.ChunLi-1, N.ChunLi-2, and O.ChunLi? :slight_smile:

So I’ll just post who I think is good in their respective games.
WW/CE/HF.Guile
CE/HF/N.Ryu
HF/SSF2/O.Sagat
N.Sim
CE/N.Bison
CE/HF/N.Rog
WW/HF.Gief
N.Chun (with stored super)
N.Vega

Anyone else? I don’t don’t know much about the old games, I’m just looking for opinions on the older tiers… Feel free to flame, critque, etc. Does ST still seem the best? Are CPS1 chains a big advantage?

Also, Any match-ups that now change because of being able to pick the older versions? FeiLong vs HF.Gief? HF.Guile vs O.Sagat? O.Sagat vs HF.Rog?


#2

This is really frustrating, no one is posting on this game:mad:. I feel like starting a thread called hello people HSF2:AE is out where the fuck are you all?!? This is the game oldschoolers like me have been dreaming about for years, I even started a thread a few months back for theory fighter, Hyper Fighting vs Super Turbo matchups. And that really is the issue here HF and ST as most of the old schoolers generaly think one or the other is the best version of SF2, surprisingly most of the top ST players I have spoken to think HF is best.
Anyway I know some of the most reliable oldschool posters like Apoc dont actually own the game yet so thats understandable but to the rest of you where are you?
When I heard about the game I thought the old school scene would go wild and my prediction for 2004 (mad pipe dream more like :rolleyes: ) was old schoolers coming out of retirement to bust out their fave SF2 character versions at EVO2k4, I can hear it now
" And new EVO2k4 champion Tomo Ohira".
No but seriously, I cant beleive the lack of posting on this game. I dont own it yet but am happy to play theory fighter. Like you my main interests are in the matchups, mainly HF vs ST. I think these matchups, on paper at least, should be excellent:

HF Balrog (Boxer) vs ST.O.Sagat (just as you Drunkenmaster)
I have seen this match in HF and the TAP can whack Sagats extended limbs and dizzy fast, but is it quick enough for ST.O.Sagat? I think so. Now OSag will have two matches where he has to think!

CE Bison (dictator) vs ST Balrog (boxer)
The two best rushdown characters in the whole SF2 series. This is going to be wild. Dont ask for a prediction!

HF Ryu vs ST Ryu
This is to decide who is top dog amongst the SF2 Ryu’s, as everyone loves one or the other and have argued about which version is best. I wonder if HF can Cyclone Kick thru Super?

To answer your question Drunkenmaster I dont think its so much the CPS1 chains being an advantage as the overall dizzying ability of CPS1characters, I mean even in HF you could still dizzy in 2 moves! Shoto’s can dizzy in with 2 fireballs, and I dont just mean the jab, feirce consecutive hits, just 2 fireballs fairly near eachother!

I think HF Guile will get murdered by ST.O.Sagat.

Why are you curious about HF Geif vs ST Fei?


#3

HF Guile to me, is the best Guile ever. Maybe with HF Guile you would stand a much better chance against O.Sagat instead of with ST Guile. Low forward is longer, flashkick is much better for hitting limbs and hitting tigers, Boom seems to be better, etc.

Basic Fei vs Gief in ST IMO is Fei doing low fierces, and then flamekick when you jump. That’s really all it is and Gief can have a hell of a time. Whenever Gief DOES get in, you can just go for short flame kick. Unless he’s right next to you, flamekick pushes you out to safety if blocked so you don’t really have to think about it. Then start with fierces again. Just for insult, If you knock gief down, you can walk up and time a short flamekick when he gets up so you just connect with the tip and AFAIK there’s nothing gief can do about it except block.

But with HF Gief you get the godly KKK lariat! No stupid low fierce now! :slight_smile: Flamekick is still a problem I geuss, but at least you won’t walk into a bazillion low fierces, or eat a set or wreakkas after you whiff a sweep trying to hit one of the bazillion low fierces.


#4

Yeah HF Guile is probably the best Guile (since I think there is general concensus that WW will be banned).
BTW I have heard that the speeds are all pretty much even between versions so I was trying to remember if there are any differences between CE Guile and HF Guile besides speed, if not CE may be even better?
Anyway, I agree the better boom will help you get maybe 1 extra nullified Tiger Shot before you have to jump straight up, and the Flashkick is better at taking out the extended low Tiger limbs (which is a pretty risky manouver anyway) but these combined are not as usefull as ST Guile’s movable forward ‘Sobat’, which allows you to punish Tiger Shots with anticipation. HF Guile’s forward does stay out longer but is only a defensive tactic really for when at range and not charged and/or ahead on energy. HF Guile is probably better in every other match except this one on the strength of that one move, either way its a very hard fight.
I have an awsome vid from the USA vs Japan comp where Kurahashi surgicaly takes John Choi’s ST.O.Sagat appart using this move. PM if you want me to send you a copy.

Yeah that sound spot on, I didn’t really know about Fei vs Geif strats in ST thats why I was curious. There are gonna be alot of questions thrown up in AE matchups purely because of HF Geif’s KKK lariat.

Crayfish.


#5

I just realized something… HF Gief vs ST Bison. Ugh!

How do you hit Gief out of KKK lariat with Bison?


#6

Head stomp, early jumping attack (you might eat a reversal SPD after :smiley: )

But I think you u can hit Gief with an early jumping fierce and still manage a standing short low strong into a psycho crusher dizzy combo.


#7

Crayfish, are you ever on goforbroke? I wouldn’t mind seeing that Kurahashi vid. Usually when I play Sagat vs Guile I’m playing as Sagat.

About the Bison stuff. To me, a Gief vs Bison match is Bison zoning with kicks on the ground, and punishing when Gief jumps (if you can) to keep him where he wants him. Gief can lariat to avoid the kicks, but can be swept if he guesses wrong. But the HF kick lariat lets him avoid the kicks no sweat.

So what does bison do now? You can’t jump from that range if he does, and you can’t just let him lariat his way in. If HF Gief is close, and does a KKK larait, how do you hit it? You kinda HAVE to, because he can just SPD if you don’t, or just KKK again right?

Headstomp does work. But sometimes I get the ranges wrong and get smacked by the fists on the way up because I’m stupid (and too close). But what else can I do? I’m thinking jump away to make space is probably the best idea.

I can’t wait to try out negative SPDs with HF Gief. >evil< :slight_smile:


#8

Drunken Master PM me :wink:

just wanted to past in this from another thread that is relevant to this discussion:

quote:

Originally posted by Crayfish

Actually this leads my into a question about SF2- AE. I was wondering about (abilities like this one) that people had and weather it was changes to them or other members of the cast that killed them?
ie: WW Shoto’s couldn’t Cyclone over Yoga Fire, but in CE and after they could. Is this because the YF changed (travelled lower) or their Cyclone Kick changed. So in SF2-AE will WW Cylone Kicks get hit by ST Yoga Fires?

This goes for alot of things I’m would love to know about AE.

Other examples, in HF and I think CE Bison (dictator) could Knee Press over Sonic Booms at the right range but in Super and ST he couldn’t. Is this because his Knee Press changed or because SB’s changed? So will CE Bison go over ST Booms?

Crayfish.

Answer by Spirited_Away

For that question, the answer goes both ways. The hurrican kicks and the YF were altered, I believe WW YF has a bigger hit box probably similier to a Hadoken. In HSF2 you can only pass it with invisible frames like CE/HF Ryu’s Hurricane and the very early startup frames on Super/ST Ryu/Ken hurricane kicks. From CE upward Dhalsim’s YF hit box is smaller.

So WW Ryu/Ken HK will pass CE/HF/Super and ST Yoga fire.

I think Bison could only pass the Sonic booms in US CE, I have the Japanese CE Strategy video and a tournament video but never seen them pass Sonic booms with Scissor kicks.

Crayfish.


#9

This thread needs to be renamed…at least to something like :

Hyper SF2:AE Strategies Discussion

or something like that.


#10

O.Sagat nerfed. CE Sagat much better imo.


#11

noob questions.

  • how do i pick ST O.Sagat? do i just choose super turbo mode and input the original O.Sagat code? or is this just sagat in Super mode?

  • is Akuma selectable in this? if so, how?

  • i could also use a breakdown of the differences between HF and Super (not ST) Ryu. my guesses; HF has a slower jab fireball, horizontal air hurricane, two hit dp. is the HF fireball also faster? anything else would be cool.


#12

i can’t speak for everyone but I"m too busy playing the damn game to post!!! haha I might come up with some tiers for everyone to argue over if you really want.


#13

Well the tiger uppercut damage is better for CE Sagat, but still I think all those cool cancel with ST O.Sagat give him better options and trapping ability even thou they changed his short tiger recovery.

To pick old super turbo characters just hold start and select SUPER mode and then select your character.

To pick unmodified Super Turbo mode hold start and select SUPER X mode.

For Akuma just go to Super X mode and use the original ST arcade code.

Differance between Super.Ryu and HF.Ryu :

Hit boxes are a bit different giving more priority for HF.Ryu frames.

SUPER.Ryu has the knocking down Red Hadoken.

SUPER.Ryu has lesser travelling distance on the Hurricane kicks

SUPER.Ryu’s air Hurricane has an arc depending on the jump.

SUPER.Ryu can cancel far roundhouse.

now here is the big suprise…all fireballs in HSF2 for Ryu travel at the same speed for all his modes :slight_smile:


#14

CE Sagat’s fireballs are much faster/slower compared to O.Sagat. Compare how much easier it is to combo 2 fireballs with CE Sagat from different ranges than with O.Sagat. CE Sagat also has a much more useful Tiger Knee for both getting over/through fireballs and setting up uppercuts/throws. O.Sagat’s 2 hit s.forward is basically only for uppercut combos, and it’s kind of a moot point since CE Sagat’s j.rh, s.jab, fierce DP combo does more. There’s also the factor that CE Sagat is a lot more likely to induce random dizzies on the opponent with his standard fireball traps. I think the only thing O.Sagat has over CE Sagat is the ability to buffer s.short into fireball and possibly the meaty low forward, low strong link combo (I haven’t tried it with CE Sagat yet).


#15

O.Sagat nerfed? Sweeeeet. :slight_smile:

A few questions about CE Sagat.

Can he cancel anything besides jab/short? AFAIK he can’t. He can still do links with the mediums though. AFAIK all Sagats can do it with no need for meaty.

Can he crossup at all?

Can someone check the throw ranges between the two? For some reason I’m thinking CE and HF Sagat have less range. >shrugs<

Differences between HF and CE Sagat?

Does HF Ryu still have the godly hurricane kick?


#16

ANYWAYS, I cant wait until this game hits the arcade and there are tourneys for it…I’m going to whoop on some people with my hyper fighting Ryu.

I can’t wait to beat up on No. Cali players and also mike watson and alex valle.


#17

Spirited_away:

thanks. no kidding? all Ryus have the same speed blue hadokens?
hoping you excuse the skepticism, but how do you know this?

  • aside from the fireball’s actual travel speed, what about Ryu’s startup/recovery frames in the different modes? eg WW Ryu can’t combo FP xx hadoken consistently. and any notes on the sizes of the fireballs themselves would be good. which has the “best” (blue) hadoken?

  • which shoto has the best fireball trap in HSF?


#18

omg ww guile and ce sagat <3 <3 that’s all I got for now

ww guile: the king of the turtle

ce sagat: this char is busted with his fireball


#19

It would be good to see the certain matchups up though. Seeing if Ryu can Hurricane go over ST Ryu’s fireball or Super. Seeing if old stuff would work on the new characters. If the WW characters can do high damage to ST characters than it’s only fair if the stuff that went on appeals to CE and Turbo as well. CE Bison going over sonic booms not just CE Guile’s, Ryu hurricane over all fireballs etc etc.


#20

old rog vs ST rog

What would happen to ST rogs super if old rog ( the one that goes through FBs. ) did his Dash jsut as the super was about to hit. Would it go through the super and hit clean? would it trade or would it jsut whiff and get hit by the super! Tath move seems like it might have roll cancel like abilities! If it does, i guess everyone will be using old Balrog! Would old Honda be able to Headbutt through ryus super?