Hugo general.

hugo

#581

What do you guys think of this hugo? I just wish hugo could do better against fireball characters


#582

Is there going to be a patch or something soon? Because I haven’t heard of one.

Anyway, if the input was changed I think it would take away from his chances at a high level. You’re going to buffering quite a bit once you get Hugo’s rhythm down, so getting them used to seeing the down down input is going to help when you’re trying to mask you’re buffer. I was messing around at a friend’s house the other day as I don’t have the game yet, and I really think in the neutral game you need to be trying to clap at fireballs and do the knee on reactions to the faster projectiles. Hugo’s focus is great for fireball fights as well.

Seriously you guys asking for buffs are going to be in for a shock when people start to learn how good this character is and cry for nerfs


#583

… No. No dude. Hugo is not good. It’s been figured out. There’s nothing more to the character that we don’t know unless it’s a stupid hitbox interaction.


#584

Hugo has some major issues, I’m not denying that some characters are really going to not like fighting him, mainly non fireball users like Yun, Yang, Fei and Gen but his mobility is a huge problem even for many grapplers, he’s going to suffer the same issues T.Hawk had before, relying hugely on meter to get in and his EX moves not even being THAT great (infinite armor slowing down as it absorbs a hit giving the opponent more time to recover, no version of Backbreaker having any invul frames unlike other anti air specials, largest hurtbox in the game making Hugo exclusive combos that make his high stamina kinda moot.)

Even if Hugo’s meta evolves so that he’s insanely good against some characters, there are those he’s just never going to be able to do very good in like Sagat, Seth and Akuma (All 3 who are in the higher end of the tier list and very common in casual and competitive play)


#585

You’re not going to be able to clap fireballs on reaction unless you’re full screen. The start up is too slow for the active frames to be so small. As far as leaping over fireballs:

A. you can’t leap over slow fireballs because of Hugo’s hurt box
B. start up time is slow so fast fireballs will hit you before you’re up in the air

Buffering them and hitting MK on reaction to a fireball at mid range will probably have you lose health more than anything.


#586

I disagree with you there.

IF you’re buffering clap, or down+down, it means you are not trying to move forward. Down+down (next to down+down+down) is one of the hardest and most offensive inputs in the game. You cannot block when you do it and you can’t move forward while buffering it. Notice that you have to AA with st.hp from neutral because he has a useless command anti-air (f+hp). Making it f+mk ensures that Hugo gets to move forward while he’s going around the maze of fireballs. There’s not going to be a situation where the opponent seeing you duck twice full screen is going to change their game plan. Both leap attack and clap can be focus attacked with a crumple given their shit ton of recovery.

Hugo has his strong points, but overall he doesn’t have the tools to play the cast of sf4. In third strike he had parry and there’s no way to break parry except high/low/throw (afaik as i’m not a 3S player). No armor breakers etc. In SF4 his focus attack is hella negative at lvl 1 (focus attack dash forward is at least -3 and close enough for normal throw). His backdash is short, he doesn’t have a way to get out of pressure. There’s no “get off me button” he has no lariat, no dp, no oil. He can’t focus backdash on his wakeup safely, so he has to deal with O/S all day long. He has the tallest standing hitbox, so everyone can instant overhead him and EVEN though he can punish it on hit. Hugo’s numbers (frame data) as-is, doesn’t command enough respect for him to put his character design to use. Compare him to Zangief, who has “fewer” tools than Hugo, but has a respect button and at mid to high level can be very successful. Hugo is all reaction, react to fireballs, react to DP etc, and ALL of the inputs are offensive except moonsault press.

But I have realized that Hugo has an legit tech trap for players who try to throw him all the time, Leap attack is airborne on the second frame, so it’s a legitimate option to avoid a normal throw, or bait a normal throw and you punish it with leap attack cr.lk xx lariat or super.


#587

Does Hugo have any throw invincible moves?


#588

leap attack. airborne/throw invincible on frame 2.


#589

So this would be a good option against Guy’s Bushin Flip?


#590

Guy’s Bushin Flip is another case altogether. General knowledge: if its from neutral, you just need to block it low. AFAIK it grabs standing. Because of elbow, you probably need to use U2/BB to avoid a trade since it’s really active. There ARE some setups that are meaty and take advantage of crouch delay. In those cases, you can probably backdash or ex.bb (I doubt Ultra will work). There may be some silly hitbox interaction issues with Hugo though, i haven’t played a guy who used any unfamiliar bushin setups against Hugo yet.


#591

Bushin flip grab, like all air grabs, is actually a large hit box, not a throw box. It’s why it works against airborne opponents in the first place.


#592

Since you can block the elbow while ducking low does that mean crouching beats Bushin Flip in all instances?


#593

I think that you don’t understand how hugo works. Him not fighting like a sf4 character is the whole reason why he was created in the first place. You guys are talking about what hugo needs and doesn’t need and you’re not even able to comprehend how he works yet. He is one of the select cast that has unique armor properties in the game and you find something to complain about. EX BACKBREAKER HAS INVUL FRAMES. Are you kidding me? And did you ever think that maybe it’s actually due to the fact that Hugo combos exist that he was given higher stamina and stun instead of vice versa. Complaining and asking Capcops to fix a character that has so much potential is silly and will only warrant you frustration in the end.

I’m not saying you clap on reaction. You can do that with a lot of fireballs on reaction with the knee anyway. Mid range you should be at a point to where they aren’t throwing fireballs anyway. You have dalsim limbs, you should be using them.

Also I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying about the buffering. I wasn’t necessarily talking about Hugo’s UOH as much as everything else being made to look like a down down type motion. You can safe jump with the move for crying out loud ( would you sacrifice Oki setups for “easier” inputs ) When I say neutral I mean hugo not being in range to slap people in the face or clap them AKA Hugo trying to get in. That’s really his whole neutral in a nutshell. Basically you don’t need to do any of that stuff on reaction as anything closer than full screen should be you’re territory in the first place. Hugo fortunately has the ability to be constantly busy during neutral and be buffering into one move after the next. ( dash, to whatever, to whatever, ) Speaking of his dash…in pretty much gives you one of the best dashes in the game and a way to buffer shit. The key to playing this character lies in his rhythm you guys. Just wait till more black people start playing this character.

Again I’m not trying to say you should be buffering down+down at neutral the whole time ( although it’s not actually that hard but I’m cool and I play dante so I forget old people still play the game) I’m saying a lot of other stuff is masked by down + down. I think that you putting so much emphasis on moving foward all the time. He can literally play footsies in areas of the screen that no other in the cast can save for maybe dalsim. Preemptive l and m claps to catch fire balls and dash or buffer into the next clap to close the gap. If you think that f+H is bad then maybe you should save Hugo for when you’re generally better at the game.

I will agree that Hugo’s feel is ass-backwards but I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing as much as it’s just going to test you’re knowledge of game mechanics to play decently. Hugo literally has an answer for everything in the cast. As far as OS against Hugo are concerned ditto he’s got 'em too, his clap option selects are stupid good. Look get to the point to where you literally have a player afraid to do ANYTHING block attack backdash jump whatever… and then tell me that Hugo is bad.

Look I think you guys are just looking at Hugo and pressing stuff and hoping that stuff works instead of learning how this character works within this game. You should litterally never not being pressing buttons with Hugo, he plays like the Hulk in Marvel 3. Learn his rhythm and you’ll be glad you didn’t quit playing him.


#594

I want to agree with you that Hugo isn´t bad but some of the things you say… >.<

  • Using l or m.clap to break fireballs is stupid. Especially the light one. The recovery is WAYYY to high, people can just punish you with anything they want if they notice you’re willing to take that risk.

-f+H is the worst move in the game. Hands down. There is absolutely no reason to EVER use this junk.

-You shouldn’t just be pressing buttons. You should anticipate and punish anything that isn’t allowed against Hugo.

That’s racist.

Gen doesn’t really mind fighting hugo. all his good pokes can be canceled into hands that break armor making st.HP useless in that match up. It’s quite hard fighting a good Gen.

Fei can punish every whiff with rekka. Blocked rekka’s should be SPD though.

Seth and Akuma aren’t harder than other shoto’s. Infact because there are more rushdown than regular shoto’s they are more likely to make mistakes.


#595

I played like my 3rd Fuerte today in all of my SF4 history. Every time I play one I’m using a new character.

His air grab beat my EX Back Breaker. I need to find a Fuerte to play with cause for real, I don’t know shit.


#596

Although I’m a Hugo hater (just don’t like his design since SF3), RB’s Hugo brought the hype.


#597

Any pad players here able to do standing unbuffered 720 with Hugo? It’s the one thing I can’t pull off with him on pad. If anyone here can do it on pad do you have any tips for the motion/direction you use?


#598

3rdstrikelove, please post videos of your game play and how hugo should be played, seriously.

From what I’m reading, you’re arguing the character, and you were messing around with the character at a friends place, and don’t have the game yet.


#599

Except when its done meaty, It’s kinda like Hakan’s uncrouchable oil dive. If the throw is active when you first wake-up, you have a “standing” hitbox, so it’ll grab. So with most characters, from neutral (not on wake-up), it can be blocked crouching and it won’t grab you. I’ve had situations where i’ve Anti-aired (with Balrog’s cr.hp) and have been grabbed) so Hugo may be in this category even from neutral. I’d suggest either combing the guy forum or just asking for a meaty bushin flip grab setup and then using DWU when you see the setup to avoid it altogether.

I understand what you’re saying and I agree with you on the surface. I think in theory all of the above is true and is the making of a good character. In practice i don’t think this is a winning formula. Hugo’s “bad” matches in my opinion involve him getting in which is why i feel his moveset should cater to always moving forward (which is present on EVERYTHING BUT leap attack). I think that although Hugo’s moveset (st.lk, st.mp cr.lk, cr.mp) caters to a very strong mid-range game in practice, the footsie heavy characters who are built to control mid-range can out footsie Hugo simply because they can walk faster and have faster and safer (hurtboxes on recovery aren’t so big and retract a bit faster) options than Hugo. Hugo’s footsies are strange to non-existent at best in comparison to the rest of the cast in SF4. In my opinion Hugo can only take a strong defensive position when the opponent is in the corner, its the only place he can command respect because he doesn’t have to “get” to the opponent; so by extension sitting mid-range pressing “buttons” is an easy way to die. But mid-range or full-screen, NO. Even with Super which is active relatively fast, it travels across the screen incredibly slow, so that EVEN if you time it right so you don’t get hit by the fireball, the opponent can block once you get there. I’m not saying that you should always have an offensive option to punish fireballs, but more so that Hugo doesn’t have any options to deter that type of behavior. There’s also a range where Hugo can’t jump over fireballs (or anything to that matter) which forces him to block or guess. Hugo has zero methods to “chase” opponents because he’s so slow.

And his O/S claps lose to basic stuff, they’re only really safe against a very small portion of the cast (Sakura, Rufus etc) and most of the decent whiff clap setups for meaty ultra throw, lose to reversal normal throw or jab. It’s “good”, but it requires incredibly good decision making on the Hugo player’s part. And even so, for the casual player, that mashes, Hugo has decent trouble combatting that i feel.

This may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaiY_YlkYJs


#600

Probably should have known better than to speak up in a low tier room. I guess I’m used to playing with characters you actually have to put thought process into using so I’m used to it.

I think the problem that people are having with this character is they’re trying to play him like Gief. He’s not Gief. The patient game sounds good and everything but you just have to go ham with Hugo. His biggest damage opportunities are going to come from well-placed premptive claps/OS’s, positioning/cornering the opponent with well-timed meat squashers, and forcing you’re opponents to make bad decisions. If you’re not pressing buttons you just cut out opportunities to get damage as you’re opponent isn’t forced to react. (an opponent just holding down-back should in you’re mind something you can punish by the way)

oh yeah f-H isn’t bad lol it’s hit-box/sphere whatever is huge as phuck.

I was trying to play more defensive with hugo as well at first, but I gerally think it’s better to mix-up smart footsies with good guesses and just never give you’re opponent a moment to strategize.

It beats everthing in the game, don’t feel bad.

I haven’t tried standing 720 on pad, but I was messing around today with the motion. It seems that you only have to press up once during the whole thing. If you think about the motion in basically two or two and a half prts as opposed to one 720 motion you may get better results. Try to think about the move like a half circle x 2 motion with an up motion thrown in the middle to start the second half circle.
The annotations I’m giving come directly from the game…With hugo on left 6,3,2,1,4, then 8,6,3,2,1,4+3xp. You still have to be pretty quick, but it’s easier to think about the motion in two parts as opposed to one. I tried it for like five or ten minutes today and was getting to where i could just walk up and do it. Think you have like eight frames to finish the second half circle once you press up.

What videos of my game play, the ones that don’t exist? lol, if you’re insinuating that one must have recording equipment to have game knowledge, again maybe it’s best to try a character like Rufus or sakura or something stupid. Hell I don’t even have the game ( which you seem to understand ) how am I supposed to record. just wow, this is usually why I keep my mouth shut in low tier forms, I just REALLY like what they’ve done with this character as far as giving the players a fresh look at a new character and it sounds to me like everybody just wants Hugo to be changed into some other generic character. Stfu and figure out how to win with him or pick somebody else, this shit isn’t rocket science guys.

Also I’ll record some matches whenever I’m able if it’ll somehow make you fell better. Although I don’t know what it’ll prove. If I’m doing well, it’ll only be because my “level of competition” is low, but if I’m getting beat, it’s because Hugo sucks as a character. I’m familiar with you’re tricks, but again I’ll be a good guy and record soon if I’m able.