Hugo general.

hugo

#681

I got super excited about the Hugo buffs and came here in hopes of discussing them only to find people crying about the EX BB nerf as if it’s the end of Hugo. Never change, SRK forums.

The clap buff combined with the super buff is probably my favorite and makes Hugo alot stronger in fireball character matchups imo. Claps are great for nullifying fireballs while building meter at the same time, which will eventually lead to super. I like sitting on super in the neutral game now, the threat of 400 damage (or more in the corner) the moment they dare shooting a fireball really makes the approach easier. The new st. lp allows very tight throw setups, if they try sticking out any normal after blocking you’ll beat them clean. SPD buff is also fantastic, two small fuckups from an average stamina character and literally half their healthbar is gone (I’m talking about stuff only SPDs can punish obviously).

But of course Hugo is completely worthless now because you can’t guess with EX BB anymore without getting punished hard and reading with it is riskier. Come on guys :neutral_face:


#682

Played a set against a friend of mine playing rose and it’s not just a little. You can just build meter from across the screen and pretend the opponent isn’t there, eventually people realise that it’s not a good idea to give Hugo meter so they stop trying to get to full screen and pressure you more. An that’s when you can play footsies. Also that super buff is crazy, I can finally react to the character doing a fireball instead of waiting until is at a certain point before I use super.

Gouken and Sagat are unchanged all other fireball related match-ups (Haven’t played a guile yet) have become better.
Also don’t forget that st.lp buff. It’s so delicious. >.<
Buffing it’s BnB’s up to 400/475 damage (Character specific thanks to the clap nerf), Giving him a way to hit-comfim his splash and making resets into UT a frametrap is huge.

Edit: I got ninja’d.


#683

This might a dumb question, but what BnB hitconfirm are we talking about here? I’m not exactly a frame wizard, so I’m not sure if the st. lp brought any new options to the table aside from tick throw setups. Also, lp chains seem way easier now but that might just be me.


#684

Clapx3 cr.lp st.lp cr.lk l.lariat does 404. (Doesn’t work on certain characters and on other characters you can do and extra st.lp)
Clapx4 cr.lp st.lp cr.lk l.lariat does 475 (550stun)
Splash cr.lp st.lp cr.lk l.lariat does 295.


#685

Thanks a bunch! These all look very useful, 404 damage without using any meter is crazy


#686

I give you the Hawk thing. I was so mad that I was too harsh on him.
But if a character has an option that they take away, that is a nerf. And honestly, do you play Gief? It’s not like lp.gh was just to “teleport” across the screen. What, are we talking about low level lp.gh until in range then spd-bs?
They should have taken away the speed, not the range. Do you even know how many OS and especially how much of Gief’s Oki game relied on the lp.gh range? I don’t think so. I’m talking about serious improvement in difficult matchups like Chun, Ryu, Sagat. And NOT because of “teleporting”, but because of meterless OS and especially whiff punishes.
And if you take away the range of lp.gh and force us to use ex.gh, why give us a “buff” that requires meter?

It was brainless. On incredibly low level play. But on that level, almost everything can be brainless. Like lp.srk. Or Dhalsim’s limbs. Give me a break.

Your way to describe what a character is “supposed” to have baffles me. They should, in my opinion, look at characters and see if they’re viable. If not, they should get something, if they are, don’t change that much if anything at all. Just saying “a grappler isn’t supposed to have this!” and then take it away seems like an easy route that creates more problems than it takes away.

But as this is the Hugo Forum, maybe we should go to the Gief Forums to talk about this… I bet there are A LOT of people who would like to hear how Gief is supposed to be played and what his strenghts are now.


#687

This is what happens when walk speeds are shit. You depend on special moves and forward moving normals for spacing/footsies/setups which makes everything canned and auto pilot.


#688

Exactly, and I would like to emphasize the use of words - depend, not rely.

I don’t know how the changes will affect Hugo. Maybe they’re not bad. Maybe they just change things up. Ok. If they are getting rid of “get out of jail”-cards in genral, fine.
But don’t you tell me that the Gief nerfs aren’t nerfs. this changes the way he’s been played since fricking Vanilla.


#689

If you literally go out of your way to make match-ups nightmarish, then they will be nightmarish, yes. It never HAD to be like that. It just always was.

Other companies make grapplers who don’t automatically die to counterpicks. It’s possible.

Lol, do you really think we’d still be playing Hugo if we didn’t understand this?

The question is whether or not EX BB distance was a nerf. Of course it was a nerf. No amount of “suck it up, or drop Hugo ya scrub” talk changes that fact. It was something he could do before. Now he can’t do it. It was a nerf. Period.

I understand the reasoning, trying to eliminate escapes from the game universally. But, it was still a nerf that hurt.

Most other fireball characters fireballs weren’t too much of a problem anyways. As far as I’m concerned it was Sagat, Gouken, Juri, Poison, Rose…and Guile to a lesser extent. Poison fight is much better. Rose doesn’t make you jump into ultras anymore…good. Sagat is still tough. Gouken is basically unchanged. Juri is a little better I think, but she has upward fireballs like Gouken. Guile…I think is better, I have to play some more, too.

So, of his biggest problems…about half are better? That’s why I said “a little.” Results are mixed.

That’s just it, though. You can do more damage, but you can do it less often due to the pushback. A tradeoff.

Landing counter hit lights from footsies range and converting them into hard knockdowns was really important. I’m not sure a little extra damage on point blank clap combos is a good substitute for that. We’ll see.


#690

Again, that’s exactly what I’m thinking too. They did the same with Gief from Super to AE, when they took away the Knockdown on ex.gh so he couldn’t just Vortex you to death after one knockdown anymore. And while I was sceptical about it, but I didn’t complain because they at least made up for it by giving him extended lp.spd range, which lead to more punishes and other, but not so easy ways into Mixups.

It is a similar situation here, that’s why I said that these were weird buffs ans nerfs that just don’t feel necessary to me. If it all comes down to not making a real difference, then why change it?


#691

Hugo was obviously just doing too well.


#692

There’s a big window to buffer or do clap right after dashing, you can input the move much earlier than it looks like you can. That’s kind of why cr.mk, fwd.dash, hp.clap doesn’t hit meaty when it’s actually positive enough to hit another hp.clap off of if you do it early enough. That setup (make sure you set the opp to no block) may help you get the timing better if you attempt to link another hp.clap after the meaty hp.clap.


#693

The new animation of the ex.bb is pretty awkward. All the other backbreaker versions have an nice arc but the ex hits an invisible wall in the air. Looks like an Omega move.


#694

It’s not. We can agree to disagree about ex BB but clap pushback is a huge nerf. You now need to use more ex clap in order to get the knockdown during footsies. Also clapx3 jabs lariat isn’t 100% spacing, it has to do with the opponents hit-animation. You can’t do that combo on t.hawk from point blank but you can do it on fei long from almost tip range. That said st.lp is a HUGE buff. F-Throw, dash st.lp jump HK is now a safe-jump and as time goes on we will probably find more that weren’t possible before. Hitting that safe-jump will net into more damage as well. Also because of the recovery, st.lp is Hugo’s best footsie tool.

And since no one is talking about the super buff, I’ll just dump this here…


#695
  1. I agree that low tiers need buffs. But A. all escape options are nerfed across the board (similar to Dan having -5 on srk fadc; yeah Dan sucks, but everybody got that nerf) and B. The life of the grappler has always been that you use high health to make up for mistakes and high damage as both a way to avoid high execution but also as a playstyle of trading speed for damage.

That’s just always been the case. I realize that that doesn’t mean it’ll always be that way (Thor’s a pretty mobile grappler in Marvel, for example), but if Hugo gets buffs it should be in areas that make sense (which I feel this patch did, for the most part).

  1. Oh no, the Gief board is awful. They said that Ultra, upon release of initial patch notes, was going to be awful, only for Snakeyez to repeatedly disprove them. Then again, Akuma boards thought Akuma was garbage when they removed overhead Palm (lel), and Sagat players are STILL boo hooing about the sensible nerfs given to Sagat that have barely been noticeable with Bonchan/Ryan Hart/Sanford Kelly repeatedly doing well. I think the overall point is that even dedicated character loyalists can misunderstand their character. You pretty much need to let the pros speak for them (so for the sake of Hugo, let’s hope Alex Valley/Kelvin Jeon do well)

#696

I play hugo, but I main deejay, its interesting to see all the hatred at these changes. It took deejay 5 years to get a reversal, that still doesn’t hit full low profile. And they chose to give the reversal properties to the move he can’t fadc, or use to combo ultra. Nice. Hugo and dan are not bottom 2. Deejay is and has been the worst character in the game for a long time.

New hugo is interesting, ex bb does change things. But it’s not nearly bad as some say. Don’t mash it out when you start sweating


#697

Sorry bro, but you just don’t know. Dee Jay’s defence sucks yeah. But he’s supposed to have good defence and, if he did, he wouldn’t need a great reversal.

Hugo’s archetype is supposed to be scary when he’s close. So why the fuck are people rushing me down with impunity? Because Hugo’s defence is fucking garbage.

At least if Dee Jay whiffs his EX upkicks it doesn’t lead into a guaranteed full combo. Most punishes against it are sweeps or low xx special.

Put it this way. Hugo’s EX BB is now as risky as Ryu’s HP shoryu. Except that it also doesn’t hit grounded opponents. And costs a bar. The risk/reward now, in any situation where Hugo finds himself under pressure, is heavily, heavily in the opponent’s favour. That is a fucking disgrace for a pure grappler like Hugo.

You’ll get zoned out the whole game and as soon as you get knocked down, get vortexed too? If your opponent isn’t afraid of getting in on you then what the fuck is the point of grinding out the zoning game? Where’s your reward for sticking through that when now that you’re in, you’re just as likely to get fucking rushed down and vortexed as your opponent is?


#698
  1. I agree its too easy to rush him down.

  2. Deejay gets full punishment on whiff or blocked ex upkicks (reversal) every time.


#699

I think y’all playing a little too honest with Hugo. He has a 2 frame SPD, 4 frame EX SPD that goes through normals, a EX Meatsquasher that absorbs normals and corner carries, a EX Lariat that absorbs normals for a hard knock down, and a 1 frame Ultra throw. You don’t have to take everything on block.

I’m not saying mash during every opportunity, but you have to let a nigga know that you’re willing to do it.


#700

I feel like i used to plink clap with 3k, but now it doesn’t work? Why was i plinking with 3k? For rhythm? Maybe it was hk?.. I don’t know, someone help.