Hugo general.

hugo

#701

I thought that because UT out prioritizes clap so you can’t kara with it.
I started trying to kara clap as well, because it makes the clap nerf a bit obsolete.


#702

Out of all of those options, only EX Lariat will hit grounded + jumping and at 14 frames startup, you can hardly call that a reversal option. Everything else is just a huge gamble that isn’t in your favour at all. Yeah, sure, you can try it, but it’s a losing bet.

Compare that to Zangief’s Quick Double Lariat. 4 frames, hit invulnerable, hits grounded and airborne. Activated with a single input (3xkicks). Relatively difficult to full combo punish.

Compare that to T. Hawk’s EX Tomahawk Buster. 5 Frames. Full invulnerable. Hits grounded and airborne. Mashable DP reversal. Confirmable into EX Dive for safety on block.

You thought Gouken’s reversal options were pretty bad before his Ultra buffs right? At least EX tatsu hit standing AND airborne, even if it whiffed on crouchers. At least EX flip was a relatively low risk escape option. At least EX counter was difficult to punish with a full combo unless you were waiting specifically for it.

Hugo’s wakeup and pressure defence is worse than all of these characters. I would wager that he has one of the worst defences in the game right now. And I’m not talking about against online warriors that leave massive gaps in their frametraps that you can just SPD through.

Also, Ultra Throw 1 frame? Am I missing something here?


#703

the clap pushback dosnt really seem to bother me, if anything i think it helps hugo establish a more consistent sense of control after a blocked clap. super buff is really nice but 95% of the time i want to keep my meter for CH stand jab xx EX Clap, or EX BB. 250 damage on HP SPD is nice, still sucks that it takes 5 SPDs to kill a character with 1000 health. clapping out projectiles while still maintaining a physical hitbox to hit the projectile user is pretty swag. I might be wrong but im pretty sure they changed the way f+HP floats, i recall if anti airing someone with the tip of f+HP i could EX BB them on their way down, this seems to no longer be the case.


#704

WhYYZ, you continue to hit the disagree as if it’s your job without explaining why you think I’m wrong. How about you give some imsight on where you think Hugo is defensively?


#705

I’ll weigh in a little on the buffs/nerfs for Hugo. the ex.bb nerf is a good tool to train you to attempt to not run away with ex.bb. I think that’s the only situation that the nerf really hits (and probably punishing sim’s Yoga Sniper on block from certain distances…maybe). Clap nerf is there, but it’s not that big a deal, means you have to be a bit more aware of your clap punishes versus getting it for free if hp.clap hits with the tip. st.lp buff is really good, gives him positive frame advantage but still doesn’t fix his problem.

Hugo’s problem isn’t defense, blocking, st.hp, ex.spd and ex.bb can be offensive solutions to any up close pressure. The bigger issues are that Hugo still can’t chase, has low mobility, and his hurtboxes are so big he can’t ever press any buttons against most of the cast OR jump over fireballs w/o pressing buttons. Hugo COULD use a get off me special (e.g. lariat). There’s something missing that in contrast gief doesn’t have, that “scare” factor that makes EVERYONE think twice before applying jab pressure or walking up and throwing him. There’s a range where Hugo can’t use any of his quick specials for pressure simply because his normals are slow and have some gnarly hurtboxes.

Not impossible to win with, but to play “solid” Hugo has to play with his hands tied behind his back. If you want to win consistently with Hugo, you kinda have to go balls to the wall and Hugo simply doesn’t have the tools in neutral to take risks even though he has a shit ton of health. Unless its a landslide, I (personally) can’t maintain a significant life lead and i feel that it stems from a character AND player weakness.


#706

What’s the input


#707

Just plink a lower punch. And for LP use the select button, hell if you have extra room for a select button it also works to kara l.spd.

You’re somewhat right but I feel like Hugo has a different way of playing footsies compared to other characters. Where normally you’re trying to whiff punish, Hugo needs to catch people footsies and score a counter hit and that heavily depends on your opponents hit/hurtboxes and active frames during their buttons.

O, and EX BB range hasn’t changed, only the recovery has so you can still get that Yoga sniper punish.


#708

Now I know you’re playing too honest with Hugo. No shots.

You’re looking at this all wrong. You’re giving me frame data and move attributes but you’re not considering how each move is applicable in a given situation. Then to use Zangief’s Lariat as a comparison? On paper that move sucks as a reversal. It loses to low meaty attacks and throws.

First off, you’re not going to have a character like Hugo, that does massive amounts of damage and give him a get off of me for free move. That’s just bullshit. All of the moves I mentioned have weaknesses but they have strengths too (just like your counter examples). And as a Hugo player, shit playing any character, you need to know when to use the tools you have. Hugo has 1100 health and does half life combos with no meter. You can afford to gamble sometimes. As a grappler you can’t be afraid to gamble anyway. You play Hugo fam. You’re not going win all of your matches by using the “100% best b/w minimal amounts of risk” option at every given scenario with a character like Hugo. He doesn’t have abuse-able buttons or specials like Chun’s s.MP or Bison’s s.MK. You’re going to have to sacrifice some health for data or for your opponent’s health. That’s why you have 1100 health and do half life combos with no meter.

Strider801 said that he started getting top 5 more often as Abel when he stopped playing “smart” and started going for riskier shit.

Hugo having the least amount of viable options on wake up is something that can be argued and discussed. But Hugo’s defense isn’t the problem. Hugo doesn’t block for you. If someone is bold enough to try and frame trap you when you’re playing Hugo, then you let them get way too comfortable.

And yeah, his Ultra 1 has 1 frame of start up. If they’re close enough to you and not in an airborne state after the ultra flash, then they’re getting slammed.


#709

Has any of your Hugo been more successful since the last patch?


#710

just played a ranked match for the first time since week 1, played against an evil ryu whose only footsies were focus attack… holy fuck am i in love with ex clap. they focus > Ex Clap, Mp Clap, Ex Clap, Lp Clap, low jab lk Lariat, is like… a lot of damage and like 600 stun
EDIT: reacting to focus with Normal/Kara EX Clap is something i recommend everyone to train themselves to do, especially against people who try to bully you with focus like Dudleys or Feis.


#711

Nope.

Some matches are a little better, others are now worse.

He received nothing that was a huge game changer, so his game didn’t change.

The fact that you barely see any discussion here anymore is pretty telling.


#712

the fact that hugo a bottom 5 character got any nerfs at all is kinda lol and pretty much proves capcom is horrible at character balance


#713

Being a DeeJay main, you have no idea.

Ex Bb range nerf hurts a little. But I really like s. Lp frames.

Other than that…that’s about it.


#714

No, that’s not it at all. Clap pushback nerf is very real. On many occasions while playing I think “I would have been able to land lariat here in the previous version”. And, landing lariat is life. Converting counterhit lights into lariats in footsies range was how he caught people, and clap pushback makes that impossible now.

St. lp isn’t going to make up for that. Especially, when it whiffs on some of Hugo’s bad match-ups.


#715

That’s not how you spell a lot.


#716

just saying if a character is bottom 5 or bottom 10 they should only get buffs or at the very least be left alone. I am of course assuming capcom actually wants a balanced game or as close to one as they can get.


#717

Well to be honest, there are nerfs that can be justified regardless of the character’s tier placement. If elements of that character promote an unfun/brainless playstyle, then you can make a case that, even though this character wasn’t overpowered, they were still hurting the overall health of the game.

Hugo’s EX BB was absolutely not an example of that. It was not in any way a free escape. The recovery was already huge and if you were looking for it, was pretty easy to get a full punish on. However, it was the threat of Hugo having a way out (at the cost of meter, by the way) that gave people a reason to allow Hugo some breathing room (walking back to put themselves in position to punish a predicted EX BB) when rushing him down.

Now, outside of EX SPD, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to let up on pressuring Hugo. Hugo is extremely easy to bully relentlessly like no character of his archetype should be. His EX BB now amounts to little more than a Ryu HP DP that doesn’t hit grounded opponents, doesn’t cause blockstun, doesn’t cause chip damage, never gets counterhit damage and COSTS METER. The risk/reward sucks dick.


#718

Use kara-clap. It will give you that knockdown back. (214+P~HK)
I’ve been doing absolutely fine with the buffs.
Clap buff made Poison more than doable and Rose/Chun/Guile doable.
St.lp made every match-up where it doesn’t whiff better and gives 50 damage more on blocked desperation.
And Super is extremely fraudulent now.
Only 2 things I don’t like are the damage reduction on ex BB and the input leniency. When my opponent goes cross-up I often than not get ex UT instead of a auto-correct ex BB.


#719

>The Seth matchup


#720

yea but hugo needs a tool to give players a reason to not just stand in his face and hit buttons