Hugo general.

hugo

#741

You’re looking at the character completely wrong. It’s like saying Ryu’s fireballs are bad because someone might jump at you when you throw them. His worst match ups aside, the risk reward for throwing out claps is absurdly in his favor. You don’t need to know your opponents tendencies when your normals control more of the screen than almost the entire cast and are difficult to whiff punish. I don’t know what you’re having trouble reacting to because the only thing I struggle with is backbreaking honda head butts and blanka balls on reaction.

Panic button? Why would you need a panic button? You’re a grappler. It’s already really risky for people to get near you to begin with and you have a dp-esque anti air that can be auto corrected. He also doesn’t need a 3 frame jab when he has a 4 frame command throw that can be karaed a ridiculous distance.


#742

Explain to me why it’s risky to get near Hugo. I want to see this.


#743

Moonsault press, EX moonsault. Neutral jumping in front of hugo is asking to eat a backbreaker or U2. EX lariat armor cancel into ultra throw is something I don’t think enough people take advantage of. With that you’re putting the threat of getting ultraed on the table and it blows up safe jumps and meaties. All his wake up options lead to a knockdown and/or huge damage.


#744

Here’s about half an hour of reasons why getting in Hugo’s face is actually a pretty good idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCpym7uDaIc

Every single defensive option Hugo has is a much bigger risk for him than it is for the opponent. EX moonsault -> 200 damage 150 stun, but getting combo punished is easily 300 damage 400 stun. Backbreaker -> 160 damage 150 stun, but again, punishes are easily 300 damage 400 stun. EX lariat armour cancel is the only thing that poses a real threat on its own but that depends on armour cancel and good luck when you guess lariat and get blocked. FADCing is not safe at all and gets ultra punished. It’s literally a three way guess and guessing wrong rewards your opponent two times over.

Compare that to Zangief who has EX spd, quick lariat which isn’t such a massive whiff risk, EX GH FADC which IS safe, or T Hawk who also has EX spd and a real DP reversal which he can make safe either with FADC or EX dive, which admittedly isn’t safe in every matchup but it’s a damn sight safer than Hugo’s EX lariat FADC and costs a meter less.

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be at disadvantage when put in a defensive situation. I’m saying that with how large and slow Hugo is, on top of that also having worse defense than the other two big grapplers in the game is just pain upon pain.


#745

A majority of the damage alucard takes in that set is in neutral situations, not when smug is in his face or has him knocked down.

And yeah, Hugo’s options COULD be unsafe. You COULD get punished for using them. Just like someone COULD block your uppercut. That doesn’t make them bad options. I also never said you should wake up with EX backbreaker. That’s for when people think it’s cute to neutral jump in front of you on your wake up and you just block. Then you get to EX backbreaker on reaction.

You’re also really generalizing all of the wake up options you’re listing off.

Quick lariat is NOT safe on whiff, a savvy opponent will punish you. EX SPD leaves you full screen away from your opponent while hugo’s leaves you right next to them. EX green hand FADC costs a huge amount of meter. None of those options are throw immune. If anything, Zangief’s wake up options are comparable to Hugo’s; he doesn’t get as big of a payoff for guessing right.

EX Typhoon leaves you full screen, unlike Hugo’s EX throw. His real dp reversal only does 140, some extra if you burn more meter, but it can be ultra punished. You can make it safe but only if you burn a bunch of meter. Tomahawk buster -> Condor spire also it’s necessarily unpunishable.

Sometimes you just have to block dude. It’s okay to have worse wake up than those grapplers when you dish out way more pain.


#746

The point is, you don’t have to be savvy vs Hugo. If you make him think you’re going for something, and he guesses with the wrong reversal, you can and will punish him, full damage, every time. Not so with quick double lariat. You pretty much have to be expecting it and ready to get in and punish. Lots of characters can’t even efficiently punish it further than a single hit.

Yup. That’s the answer. I just haven’t been blocking. Now I can start winning majors just like every other Hugo player hasn’t.

The damage barely matters. The follow up setups barely matter. What matters is consistency. What matters is forcing your opponent to respect the option. Backdashes deal 0 damage but for some characters they’re a consistent option and force your opponent to consider their offensive approach. Just about the only thing Hugo can really force you not to do is jump at him on wakeup.


#747

<This is two month (?) old response that’s still kinda pertinent> It started as an explanation as to why i feel that jab pressure is so scary for Hugo (because of throw).

I think you get it, but i do think you’re missing it too. Hugo has to do a reversal SPD on wakeup to beat a meaty throw. A REVERSAL SPD or U1. He can’t jump, can’t backdash, can’t block, can’t crouch-tech. He has two options, that BOTH get beat by jumping or backdashing. Backdashing gets beat by a wakeup normal, U2 or back breaker. None of these overlap. For example, if you knock ryu down, he can dp which beats normal throw and some meatys 100% of the time, his options cover both and don’t leave him without. So Hugo tries to be defensive and blocks on his wakeup, then he gets tick thrown or worse, he guesses with a reversal spd or jumps and eats a 20% combo into knockdown. Hugo’s defense is fundamentally flawed absolutely devoid of the player.

Hugo’s kind of incomplete. I think his design works but is lopsided.

In contrast to EVERY other grappler, getting close to Hugo is probably the safest place you can be simply because you can throw him and his mobility doesn’t lend itself to avoiding throws or jab pressure without taking big risks that are really easy to punish. These are basics, we’re not getting into armor cancels or reversals or anything, BASICS. Hugo loses at a very low level. He’s got some tools and he’s got normals that are REALLY good, but not useful in a range where the popular (and top tier) characters dominate.

He’s the sentinel of SF4, his hurtboxes and recovery are as big as he is, don’t kid yourself in saying that he’s hard to counter-poke. Hugo’s ex.spd is also 5f (1f slower than most grapplers) and not throw invincible, so jab pressure into throw, ex.spd isn’t the answer. lariat is a much better panic button because it doesn’t incur hit-stop (almost nullifying its use up close outside of armor cancelling).

Hugo’s not bad, he’s just not good enough, he kills himself most often than not and he doesn’t operate well within this game because he doesn’t have parry (imo).


#748

Hugo OBJECTIVELY has less time to react to anti-airs. It doesn’t matter how godlike YOU might be. Tall hurt box = Less time to react. There is nothing to argue there. And, it will have an effect. Even top pros can’t anti-air everything in time.

I didn’t say I needed or wanted a panic button. Like i said, we’re not idiots. We know what a grappler is. We know how a grappler works.
However, I AM saying that panic buttons allow characters to react to unexpected situations WAY more readily than characters without them.

Remember, this was in response to this comment:

Yes, Hugo is indeed a character that has trouble adapting to the unexpected because he’s so big, slow, and read dependent.

If you’re going to design a character like this, then his other tools better make up for his deficiencies…and QUICKLY. Hugo’s other tools do not do this QUICKLY. To make the most out of his tools you need to train and read your opponent. You cannot do this QUICKLY.


#749

It’s funny you mentioned his tall hurt box. I can upkicks or shoryu every jumo in ever. But my ex bb is ALWAYS late lol.


#750

Anyone catch infexious at FFM Rumble this weekend? Guy was crazy good with Hugo, clap punishes and anti airs very on point. Managed to beat Tokido’s Akuma and take third place at a CPT event, that’s commendable. I’ll post the video of him beating Tokido in the respective thread if I manage to find it.


#751

Very strong Hugo no doubt, but his opposition were making some very clear mistakes. Poongko completely exposed the raw limitations of Hugo as a character.


#752

Figured you’d say something like that.


#753

Was any of it wrong?


#754

Typical is the word I’m looking for.


#755

So no.


#756

He has beaten Poongko before at CWC so it was definitely possible. I saw the match and I really think the nerves got the best of him. And just ignore mowr that’s usually best.


#757

So it was nerves when it was vs Poongko but Tokido played perfectly I guess.


#758

Pressure ISN’T a huge weakness. Dude. It’s an offensive concept. Everybody is weak to pressure if you don’t know how to deal with it.

For all of the talk about Hugo being weak to tick throws, I haven’t seen any Hugo player consistently lose to a 50/50 tick throw/combo vortex. I haven’t seen any one try and exploit this with every Hugo and get winning results either. Crouch teching CAN be done once you learn the timing. It’s harder than someone with a 3 frame cr. low, but it’s possible. Back dashing is still viable if you have to sacrifice a little health to reset the spacing (if you get hit).

If you wanna talk about how viable Hugo is in Ultra, that’s another convo. I do think he got better with the recent buffs though.

You play a grappler. You’re not going to set the match unless you earn it. Other players can take the tools Hugo have and make reads and train opponents quickly. They have probably been playing longer than you, or are better than you, but the point still stands. Just because YOU can’t do it quickly doesn’t necessarily mean the character needs moves to help you adapt. Hugo doesn’t adapt. You do.

When Infexious beats Tokido, Tokido made mistakes. But when ANYBODY beats ANY Hugo, it’s the character. C’mon now. Stop trying to diminish that man’s credit. He deserves it and it should be motivation for you or any other Hugo. And for you to sit here and say that is clearly because you want to justify your own shortcomings with Hugo.

This shit is getting ridiculous now.


#759

[quote=“Mafamaticks, post:758, topic:169203”]

Pressure ISN’T a huge weakness. Dude. It’s an offensive concept. Everybody is weak to pressure if you don’t know how to deal with it.

Sure hugo can deal with pressure if the player knows how. The difference is is it’s more difficult with hugo. He doesn’t really have any get off me moves. Taking away his rocket pack was a huge mistake as he really needed it. When being pressured you’re defense has to be on point with hugo.


#760

ok well the above did not work out right.