Hugo is becoming borderline unplayable online

hugo

#1

Hugo is a really fun character to play. I like his moves, his combos, etc.

But frankly, he might be the absolute worst character in the game when played online.

What kills him is speed. specifically, lack of it. Even more specifically, frames.

Hugo’s moves are slow. staggeringly slow. while his normals often have great range due to his size, they come out with the blazing speed of a sleeping tortoise, and recover about as quickly. not only does this put him at a sever disadvantage when he’s under pressure, but characters with faster moves can take advantage of his extended hitbox and slow recovery to land more hits on him during footsies. enemy grapplers can even grab him with proper timing.

And of course, all this makes him INCREDIBLY free to any decently fast reversal. he can get shoryukened out of pretty much anything he does, with very little risk.

Even his two armored space-closing special, EX meat squasher and lariat, can both lose to even non-armor breaking reversals due to 1:meat squasher’s armor ends before the grab actually begins(I’ve even been jabbed out of it before), and a decent reversal’s iframes will almost always beat out Lariat’s single hit, then proceed to hit hugo after his armor stops.

Because of his massive hitbox and slow moves, Hugo somehow manages to be even worse against shotos than Gief and hawk, whilst offering no real advantages over them.

And finally, the lag. As I said, Hugo is slow and many of his moves are situational in nature, which gives him more of a reactionary play-style. strong reads, choosing the right counter, etc.

And like anything that requires reaction, it’s nerfed online. I’m sure many other enthusiastic players have found themselves being repeatedly stuffed out of everything they try to do, not just by reversals, but by typical normals. it’s even fairly easy to safejump his backbreaker once you know it’s angles(and indeed even knock him out of it with jumpins. yes, even EX)

Basically Hugo very much relies on surprise to win. If your opponent knows what you’re going to do, they can typically easily counter it. The longer the game goes on, the weaker Hugo will be as more people become familiar with his moves, learn safe setups against him, etc.

And all these issues are exacerbated online due to the weakened ability to react. you’ll just always be a step behind, getting all your moves stuffed.

I really like Hugo, and plan to continue playing him, but for the love of god capcom, people should not be able to beat out my jabs with their heavy :frowning:

And btw, that’s not hyperbole. Hugo’s jab has a 6 frame startup(with 11 frame recovery, because why not). that’s twice as long as, say, Ryu’s.

Ryu’s hard punch? 5 frames.


#2

I told my brother the exact same thing.

Hugo is not a good character online for a couple of reasons.

Button lag will do him in because you need to be one point with his slow normals.

Hugo is also a character where you need to play back to back to back to back to get into the groove and learn, those delays after ranked matches or endless battles just add to the salt/annoyance after you lose to a FB zoner and it’s one and done. Hugo will rarely beat a good FB zoning player on his first try IMO, just needs to grind it out and learn.

He is execution heavy with his Kara’s and Clap combos’, not too great online IMO.

He’s very fun offline though.


#3

I think you don’t understand hugo at all. He is meant to suck in neutral against most of the cast.

Regarding online lag, yes its true that its harder to react online, and that offensive play becomes more advantageous due to the magnified difficulty of whiff punishing and reacting with counters. Knowing that, what are you doing playing defensive with hugo? Pick your spots to get in.

Out of all grapplers, hugo easily has the best wake-up game. Ex lariat, ex backbreaker, regular spd, ex spd, ex ms. Don’t be afraid to churn dat 360, or mash that backbreaker. Unless the opponent can dish out 400++ damage punishes without nuking his entire stock of bars, he has no business going offensive against hugo. On +frames or not.

Learn your punishes. Using the wrong choices of reversals is suicide against hugo. Whiffed/blocked srk? Hit him with a clap loop into lariat kd for 450 damage, followed by a clap setup into death/near-death.

Learn your set-ups. Make em guess. Make them risk the srk. Opponent frozen, decides to hug down-back? UT him for 288++ damage and make him guess again. Srk out of everything? Make him think twice. Mp clap whiff into down-back. Take a 40%~55% chunk out of his life bar for a cheap 1 bar combo. Don’t use dwu as an excuse for not learning setups. All of hugo’s hkds have days of frame advantage. React to it.

Learn your option selects. I don’t care how bad your execution is. Hp clap has at least twice the hitstop of a jump-in fierce/roundhouse. Os Megaton press the backdashing mofo.

Learn to use the ex meatsquasher/ex lariat pseudo-mixup. Using it far away is as good as giving away free hp. Using it in mid-range makes it harder to react with an armour breaker/seeing the difference in run speed and reacting. While the risks are high, so are the rewards. Lariat gives you a mp clap whiff/meaty hp clap os bb mixup. Meatsquasher linked into st.mp(1f link )does a whopping 345 damage along with the best positioning you can ever hope for.

Learn kara ex ut. Grab people at 10 training squares away for 260++. Being able to significantly outrange another grappler’s spd is a dominating factor.

Hugo was given tons of health. He’s not a reactive character. He’s built to pay some of his life to get in and wreck shit.

Also regarding the last comment, sure it may be true that ryu’s fierce is faster than hugo’s jab, but to have a jab that out-ranges ryu’s low forward?

Hugo is not a pick-up-and-play character like ryu. He requires serious hours in training room to excel. Mastering your combos and set-ups is a great start. Hugo rewards good reads most out of all characters with strong oki. Like Hugo? Wanna play him? Put in the hours. Watch the hate mail flow in.


#4

TL;DR: Go into training mode for 10,000 hours and master all of the 50/50 setups so you can go braindead every match and just spend all your time trying to do the exact same thing over and over.

aka make Hugo into every other character in the game and totally remove any reason I have for playing him. might as well just pick up Decapre. then again, endless setup guessing games seems to be the current meta, so maybe I should just git gud and except it.

And the “psuedo-mixup” of EX backbreaker and squasher is a crock of shit.

As I said, you don’t NEED an armor breaker to beat them. sqasher loses it’s armor before the grab actually begins so you can just be jabbed out of it, and the only reaction you need to lariat is to just hold back(or dp and still beat it because i-frames)

oh, and btw, they’re both susceptible to throw. I’ve been thrown out of them multiple times, even at mid-range, and once I saw it was possible, I’ve been able to do the same to other hugos when they tried it on me.

Not much of a guessing game when both can be beaten the same way.

And again, if you just wanna learn setups and create vortexes…why are you even using Hugo? E.ryu, oni, Decapre, Cammy, Akuma and half the rest of the cast have simmilar high damage combos into 50-50 guesses, and on top of it they have a much better neutral game and ways of getting in.

So basically, once you’ve “mastered” Hugo in the way you described him, you obtain…a weaker version of other characters.

Sure he’s got more health, but he also has a truck-sized hurtbox and attacks that can be stuffed by almost anything.

I didn’t pick up Hugo just to play another braindead vortex char who’s entire game revolves around doing the same thing every single fight. Granted this means I’ll likely lose a lot, because it’s the most effective way to play a90% of all characters in the game, but honestly I’d rather just not play than be that.


#5

I heard mariokart is a good game.


#6

And it’s more or less the same as this game, because all karts essentially play the same way.


#7

As a saddened Hugo player, you HAVE to ABSOLUTELY be patient with him. Like what Aviatrixx said, LEARN YOUR DAMN PUNISHES. Once you get the knock down, it’s mixup heaven.

Big hurbox? who cares?! It’s a tradeoff for damage. If you do 10 stand strongs you win. That’s how much damage he has at his disposal. And once you have someone knocked down, the possibilities for you to vortex your opponent are still limitless. He’s a terrible character yeah, but I’ve used him online and offline and he’s just as fun as ever once I grew patient. Besides, you shouldn’t be reacting to your opponent. You should be reading your opponent.

HUGO REWARDS OFF OF HARD READS!!! When it comes to Hugo you are reading the whole Game Of Thrones series where every other word is in a different language while you’re blind, but it doesn’t mean that the books are a total loss. You can still apply pressure to your opponent because Hugo covers SO much ground, and he has one of the fastest dashes in the game so you can be going in and out as you please.


#8

Jibbo stated in one of his streams, the reason meatsquasher lands is because you have to get them focusing too much on staying on the ground so you don’t hit them with BB. So that’s something to really think of in regards for that mix-up working so well.
I love Hugo’s Defensive wake-up options because either the opponent has to let you breathe and try to predict a BB or they have a hard time getting real strong punishes. I honestly think people forget sometimes he has an AA move that beats almost everything they do. It’s hard to notice his positives when all we see/play are his REALLY bad match-ups. He might not have any really good match-ups or any good match-ups, but I do believe he at least has even match-ups.
I think one of the biggest problems I have online and in general is I need to work on my punishes I always drop them or don’t go for the right ones and that makes or breaks the character.


#9

This topic is stupid.


#10

his AA move doesn’t beat everything, though. at all.

In fact I’ve been knocked out of it by several different jump-in normals.

The EX version does better, but even it isn’t immune to this. I guess it’s because of when the armor wears off, but I’ve even been hit out of the EX if they come in at an odd angle.

BB is a great AA, but it’s far, FAR from perfect. don’t spam it every time they’re in the air thinking it will be a guaranteed grab, because you’re gonna be surprised.


#11

I would never wake-up with non Ex BB at all It has no inv (which is what I was more referring to) . I almost never get hit out of it when I AA someone as long as you don’t do it too early where your inv runs off you’re fine It still has 5 frames of inv which is decent and even on trade it at least puts them in a knockdown state. If I’m unsure of it actually hitting as an aa and not as me just doing it then I’ll just use St.hp or I’ll just have to block if I’m not even confident with that or I’ll try to Air to air them. I know it’s not perfect but damn does it do a really good job most of the time I get it off.


#12

it works well enough if you’re careful, but I’m really starting to believe it might just get beaten flat out by certain jump-ins.

it might just be some very specific timing needed, but it gets annoying when you perfectly predict a jump…only to get slapped out of your BB by like, a jump-in lp.

EX only very rarely gets stuffed, and that’s mostly because of weird corner fuckery creating weird jump angles and timings.


#13

I think hugo has some of the best and worst anti air normals. St.hp is great vs neutral jumps and other jump ins that don’t have two hits. But it requires you to have your timing down right. Air to airs always only ok.
F+HP is super hard to get to land. St.hk Is a weird AA too. Cr.Hp works well vs neutral jumps and cross ups and far jump ins but I want to see the hitbox before I can determine how bad or good it is.
I just kind of wish he had like a hawk Cl.mp/thrust peak or a Cr.HP or just anything that was a standard anti-air even if it’s only for a small amount of damage. That way I wouldn’t have to focus on using Meter or trading my HP for an AA.


#14

Best argument yet.


#15

Can you elaborate more on the various setups/OS? or at least reference to a good source for it?


#16

Eat some potatoes, drink some concrete, and harden the fuck up mate.


#17

It’s not an argument at all; it’s a conclusion.


#18

@Gefen‌

Most of the setups are posted on general thread.

These are the setups i use :

lariat ender
Cr.mk whiff > mp clap whiff > ut/downback bait, reaction bb/u2 to nj

Cr.kk whiff > hp clap ( hits meaty ) os lk bb/u2 ( use ex bb for chun level backdash )

spd ender

mp clap whiff > …

slight delay > hp clap > …

hp clap must be delayed. Frame perfect hp clap whiffs.


#19

I will move the question to the QA thread. Please follow ^^


#20

I think it really depends on how you’re playing and how good your reads are. If you make the right reads on your opponent, Hugo looks unbeatable.

It’s also extremely important to learn setups and OS with Hugo, since he scores knockdowns on like everything he does.