Hulk Strats' and Traps

hulk

#1

Ah Yo…they gonna keep closing up these forums if we don’ t post.

Anyway I’m trying right now to come up with some Hulk traps and set ups so far. Post’ em here if ya gottem.

Why Traps with Hulk u ask? Because Hulk is da only chrc in MvC2 that does Guard damage with basic attacks.

Team Watts is a pretty decent one for starters.

I like to include Doom AAA and Sen Grou.
Every now and then I might Slap in Iceman proj and Doom AAA instead.
Obviously CapCom AAA comes in handy and keeps ppl in check.

C’ mon ppl help me and yourselves out here and post what ya know. The Hulk ain’ t the most POWERFUL person in Marvel for nothing ya know!


#2

There is no such thing as a Hulk trap. The closest thing to it would be (corner only) jab Gamma Rip XX Gamma Quake, and you have to burn a meter to do that. Not so much a trap as a sort of “momentum reset”.

For the record, Sent does guard damage on normal attacks. So does Jin (except for jab/short).

I have some useful information I could share, but I’d rather answer specific queries than try to spill my guts into some big, generalized effort that only half-a-dozen people are going to read/care about.

Plus, Deathfist is much better at putting the stuff into words than I am anyway. If you’re fortunate, he (along with Gammadynamite and some others) will provide some input on this.

-Jugg


#3

Deathfist, WTH happened to your post? I saw it earlier… :confused: At any rate, thanks for the kind words. :slight_smile:

I will go ahead and say that what Hulk brings to the table generally falls under the umbrella of assist punishment. He also has good vertical offensive threats, which is not exactly rare but fairly uncommon when you look at the entire roster & worth noting. I’ll leave the power and stamina aspects to Captain Obvious, who will be filling in on those points later… :lol:

Hulk is a rushdown character to his heart, but you’ve got to be careful not to impale yourself on somebody’s st00pid hi-priority launcher or preferred AAA. So don’t neglect your empty jump-ins & ground throws, lest you become too predictable & lose.

Every Hulk player loves their j. HK and j. lk, mk… but I’ve found over time that the handclap (j. HP) is quite possibly his most important air normal, bar none. I know, pretty lofty claim, but trust me on this. It bestows mobility properties that are critical to getting Hulk in favorable offensive positions & out of jams. It crosses up. It hits crouching opponents. It SJ-cancels wonderfully. It has a funky a$$ hitbox that can has uses when both above & below the opponent. Learn this normal!

Also, I’ve found that j. MP has more purpose than I originally thought as well. When it lands on opponents @ SJ height, it causes a flying screen & Hulk hops in from the side, essentially giving you a free, no-effort-required dashjump if you want it. Call Sent drones/Doom rocks/whatever, land on the other side & continue your assault. Kinda situational, but still another piece of the puzzle that shouldn’t be ignored.

I may add more later, but I can’t really think of much that hasn’t already been covered in the old Hulk thread originated by Brood (before the character-specific-folder era). I suggest digging that up & seeing what you can glean from that…

-Jugg
"And remember, as always… you screw up a cancel, you die!"


#4

I believe the comment I said was that you should at least try to put down the shit you know Juggerknott. If it wasn’t for you, I would never have learned you can otg off Hulk’s air throw [which opens up even more deadly kill combo situations]. You are far better at using the normals than I am with him. The more you do it the better at it you will become. My strengths lie mainly in finding ways to make the gamma crush unmashable and to throw people into the assists.

A good idea would be to cultivate your mind and your deceptiveness. If your attacks are blocked, there is a chance of eating combos so you need to involve assists as cover fire so that you are never opened. I’ll be extremely blunt. The only things that are slow about Hulk are his recovery / startup and his dash has too little range [learn how to wavedash]. Hulk is incredibly fast so sick top down games aren’t entirely out of the question.

I can’t be bothered putting all that info back right now, maybe some other time.


#5

In some cases I like to use Hulk and Dooms AAA.
I like to wave dash back and forth and throw ppl down into dooms anti-air if they jump.

I do use hulks gamma charge only if an oppon attempted a sweep or some other move with less recovery. I do not use the Gamma crush due to the fact it can be mashed out of. I only do it if my assist hits the oppon first or if my oppon leaves their assist in there unprotected.

Usually I do c.lk,c.lk,Gamma charge with FK and as soon as hulk passes them I do the Gamma wave d,df,f+pp before my oppon touches the ground. But I only use this combo if I’m near the corner or a half of screen. Deathfist I’m interested in some of your strats man, c’mon post’em


#6

Hulk and Doom is a real good idea. Not only do you get an assist that you can throw them into and combo off of, but you can stick Doom-b into all kinds of unmashables. I need to retest some to remember all the specifics of this however. Try to pin their ass in the corner.

My Hulk is rather basic. What allows it to survive is the fact that I am extremely evil and deceptive when playing him. He doesen’t take alot of skill* to operate because his combos and system mechanics are easy [unless you wish to land unmashables. Then things get real hard…]. He takes 3 things just as important as skill to operate. I’d go so far as to say more important [in his case that is]. Relentlessness, BRAINS and PATIENCE. If you don’t have those with Hulk, you can’t win. Period.

*Note: I define skill soley as execution.

Random thoughts…

-Don’t always attack every time you jump or dashjump at the opponent. That’s unwise in a game with unlimited [combo igniting] assists and guardpushing.

-Hulk’s best position is second behind a battery character. I’m thinking BH, Doom, Storm, and Spiral here. Unless you’re using my fun team [Hulk, BH, Cable-b] this is the only position he should be in. This way, runaway becomes stupid, and if you screw up and they block A gamma charge you can wait alittle then cancell into a gamma wave as they leave guardstun. They may fall for it and eat it. If not, you should be safe.

-Air throw every chance you get since you can otg off it. It’s very hard to roll away from. There are also assists that they can be tossed into.

-Learn how to use air lights to stuff attack sprees for opponents. This can lead to free gamma charges into quakes and other stuff. It’s kinda amusing to stuff Magneto triangle jump attempts like this and combo assists into this or better yet rejump and air throw.

-Sometimes it’s a good idea to follow your opponent around with Hulk and do nothing [Much like how Justin does with Magneto]. Just observe and learn how he fights and defends, what his blocking tendencies are, what or how he does when pressured, etc, and then use this info against him.

The team I like the best for Hulk is Hulk, BH, Cable still. Why?
-Hulk-BH unmashable kill combo [Very hard, but works]
-BH can build meter for kill combo
-BH can tag in Hulk and go charge to wave getting you in the corner [and from there Hulk can finish the job]
-Cable-b clears the zone well and gives you a deadly alpha counter threat. His presence is also distracting.

There are other teams for Hulk, but I’m lazy. I covered them in the Hulk threads.

-There is more, but I’ll stop for now. I may edit and add to this more later.


#7

I hope ya do real soon man, but what do ya do against a keep away cable with Sen ground assist and CapCom AAA?That team seems to be a pain to me when I use hulk. Sometimes its just hard enough to get in there,plus I’m trying to be careful not to let my assist eat a AHVB from cable almighty!Any tips?


#8

vs. Cable:

Cable/Sent-y/(real good AAA) is probably the toughest thing to deal with in the game for Hulk.

Basic gameplan is to advance as safely as possible with either jab/short (to chip & feel him out) or empty jump-ins (XX throw).

Dashjumps are key. DO NOT do random gamma charges, you will die quick.

You will have to watch Cable’s meter very carefully, and decide when it’s best to try assist punishing.

If Cable is staying on the ground/normal jump level, you try to go over the top with super jumps (+j. fierce for added mobility). The handclap can be used to either give a slight boost forward, or to stop your horizontal movement (charge back for quick gamma charges as soon as your feet hit the ground).

Listening is very important when superjumping. Pay close attention to see if you hear something punishable (like viper beams) and be ready to gamma charge it. Paying attention to your opponent’s assist icon when SJing is important for similar reasons.

If Cable is SJing, your job actually becomes slightly easier. (CAREFULLY!) use gamma charges, dashjumps and SJ-cancelled j. fierce to advance; punish assists with gamma charge XX super or assist-based damaging combos when appropriate. Be on the lookout for sloppy grenades/viper beams when he’s up there, use gamma quake as solid, reliable punishment.

Oh yeah, don’t forget, make sure you don’t run into the “really good AAA” while you’re doing all this. Commando & Cyke are particularly troublesome.

This all sounds well & good on paper, but what makes things tough is constantly playing catch-up in the War on Meter as well as that unfriendly, ever-present clock. Therefore, make sure you take what you’re given whenever you can, so you don’t find yourself reaching with 20 seconds left. Patience is the order of the day. Just hang around, stay in the fight, and when you get your chance DON’T MUCK IT UP! :):lol:

This is a very unique fight that can’t really be tackled any other way, at least as far as I know. I will address the other “unique fight” (vs. Sent on point) in another installment at a later date.

Good luck.

-Jugg
"Deathfist’s points are spot-on… take notice."


#9

Another fun thing to do vs Cable-Sent is to fuck over the drones with Jin-b. This reopens Hulk’s best attack lane [the dashjump].

1]Make sure you call him ONLY if you see Cable call Sent-y.
2]Time the call to make sure the drones BARELY don’t touch you.
3]Move the moment Jin commits to action [so you move with the blast to exit beam radius uncontested].
4]Use this during dashjumps almost exclusively [without violating the other rules].
5]Do this only while Cable will be in blast radius [much bigger than you think].

Follow these easy steps without breaking any other rules, hybridize it with some of the stuff Juggrknott said, and Cable BARELY cannot AHVB Jin. He can, but you won’t be in beam radius [meaning you’re behind him, above him, air throwing him :slight_smile: ], or will be too close for it to matter. That or Cable will just blow himself up on Jin. Jin then becomes bait and you can easily combo the shit outta Cable. If you don’t follow these simple rules, Jin WILL get vaporized.

Cable’s liable to get his ass kicked long before he gets enough meter to become a threat to anything [unless he hides behind a battery character]. His trapping assist is rendered useless since Hulk’s able to move before him [unless Cable likes blowing himself up :D].

I don’t feel like covering Cable AA no Sentinel presently. That shit’s too easy [Unless Cable’s loaded then it’s interesting]. Thanks Juggrknott for the post vs Cable-Sent tandem for me.


#10

vs. Sentinel:

Sent is obviously a very tough matchup. He’s stronger and tougher than Hulk, plus quicker in the air. To top it all off, your super armor doesn’t mean much against him either.

When fighting Sent, the gameplan gets divided into 2 categories: Flying Sent & Grounded Sent. One of the most important things to remember is that one can’t do what the other can. A flying Sent can’t HSF you, and a grounded Sent can’t stomp. This seems very elementary, but it’s critical to knowing what you can pull of and when.

Flying Sent’s most fearsome day-to-day weapon vs. Hulk is the B&B combo j. lk, lk, dp+rocket punch. Since Hulk is such a meaty target, it connects easily. Therefore, you want to be really careful in chasing him in the air. It is far better to SJ striaight up and keep Sent at bay with appropriate normals than it is to lean forward into some of those B&Bs. You might not be gaining a lot of ground, but you’re not losing any either, and that’s good.

Avoid gamma charges vs. Flying Sent (esp. horizontal) unless you are sure it will connect. Stomp owns the gamma charge.

When a normal lands, jump on the opportunity and (carefully) keep your rushdown assault going (don’t forget throws!). It’s OK if a lot of the normals are blocked too, because they chip & gain you valuable blockstun momentum (“taking what they give us”, remember? :slight_smile: ).

Be ready to gamma charge XX gamma quake a sloppy flying Sent, knowing that his flight is so quick that you have to use this very judiciously or he may evade every single rock. :eek:

Grounded Sent mostly needs to be jumped over; his offensive tools trump most of what Hulk has on the ground. Two important moves in Hulk’s reportoire for this fight are fierce Gamma Rip (qcf+p) and Gamma Wave. Once the rocks are on the way, the fierce Rip will force a trade with grounded Sent if Hulk is not truly a full screen away. VERY IMPORTANT. The Gamma Wave has similar properties, but will work full-screen, costs meter (duh) and is DHC-able (double duh). The implications of this become clear when you use assists to “bait” Sent, then force him to blow valuable meter by use of this concept.

This is one of your two principal options for saving an assist from a mouth laser XX rocket punch XX HSF assault, the other being some SJ-based normal attack bailout/trade force (usually a precise j. hk on the tip of Sent’s head).

DO NOT call your assists randomly or without a good plan, and you won’t find yourself trying to make a comeback after eating a HSF setup so much. :wink:

DO NOT impale yourself on Sent’s launcher, no character can take that. Two strikes, yer out… :lol:

That’s the basics, I’ll be glad to answer specific questions. Good luck, you’ll need it!

[EDIT: Best way to kill Sent? Off the side! He stays out there forever when assisting with drones, more than long enough to Gamma Crush XX (other DHC) his sorry butt. Works great on Storm-a, too! For best results, soften up assist first… strongly not recommended against point Cables… :lol:]

-Jugg
"Shoutz out to Deathfist, thanks, feel free to add anything if ya can."


#11

Great thread! The double crush thread is good too! Thanx for the info Jugg and Deathfist.
Sent is IMO the hardest matchup for hulk. Sent does everything Hulk can do only faster and better . The only thing I can say on that is try and stay directly above him or stringing attacks together to keep him blocking. Keeping him grounded and in block stun is about all you can hope for. Wait for him to call an assist and Kill it.
A team I have been playing lately is Storm/Hulk/CC or Doom. It has the double crush potential and the triple team almost kills everyone. Once you get 3 meters ppl stop calling assists once they learn and it makes things alot easier for storm to rush with out fear of AAA. She builds boatloads of meter(obvious)for hulk which makes playin him alot easier.
Crush Combo that I like to use: (Someone may have posted before but I haven’t seen it)
cr.lk+storm a, lk, gamma crush.
For some reason the super flash causes the lag between the mk and the typhoon hitting to go away(kind of like tempest?) so the typhoon connects keeping them standing there waiting for the rock to hit them in the head. Make sure the 1st lk hits or you are in trouble.


#12

vs. Mag/Storm TJ rushdown:

I chose to handle both characters in one post, mostly because the way to fight them applies to both.

Rule #1: Don’t stand there & try to block it all! Get off the ground! Otherwise, no matter how tight your defense is, your opponent will get in eventually…

Rule #2: Don’t try to out-muscle their hard normals (HP/HK) much, if at all. You may get a few favorable trades, but they will come out ahead overall if you try this consistently.

Those are the big ones, the “cardinal sins” of this matchup if you will. Following are some pointers…

  • PUSHBLOCK! After which you can…

    -super jump
    -call assist
    -short gamma charge (1 or 2) + cover assist
    -try a command throw (if they jump in really shallow)
    -dash back (yes, you can go that way too…)
    -sit tight, wait & react
    -try a fierce Gamma Rip, ready to cancel into GW if it lands
    -and so on, etc.

You can (& should!) mix & match your post-pushblock actions. Maybe it’s a SJ + call assist. Maybe you pause ever so slightly & then throw out a semi-random Gamma Wave and see if they get caught (esp. if they tend to continue with their combos even after pushblocked). Maybe you try to hop up for a quick airthrow XX whatever.

A useful trick is to gamma charge under them after they normal jump, and cut it up-back into them. Works reasonably well, but far from unblockable. As usual, don’t get predictable. Related to this concept is a quick gamma charge underneath XX gamma quake that sometimes will get in when the opponent “autofaces” towards the correct direction. This could probably be abused by an astute & very precise Hulk player; I’m not quite there yet.

If you are fortunate enough to be facing a Mag/Storm that still likes the ground dash a lot, just take your gamma charge XX appropriate super & call it a day. Makes life easier. Fairly uncommon to see nowadays, though…

So in closing, all you need is a little patience, because you don’t have to hit either one of these crabs but a couple of times… :slight_smile:

-Jugg
"Generally block high on incoming. The super armor will provide some (lifesaving) second chances…"


#13

What about Strider/Doom/Sent or Capcom(take your pick) how do you deal with that?

So far this thread on the Hulk is great need to know more about him.


#14

vs. Strider/Doom:

This fight is rarer than ever nowadays, but I’ve certainly seen it enough to be able to speak on it.

The 3rd character is largely irrelevant, at least beyond how they interact with Doom assist. The only real exception is Cable, who will probably come in loaded no matter how quickly you get rid of Strider, and (a patient) Cable/Doom is still formidable. Sent is no walk in the park either. Anybody else shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

The reason you still see this team occasionally is because it can work very well when executed properly, especially on “bigmen” characters. However, the average S/D has visible holes in their version of The Trap, and that’s what you want to exploit.

At the beginning of the fight, you just want to carefully work down Strider without getting too far behind; pushblock to help slow the pace on his rushdown. He has a lot of priority & speed on his blade, so don’t look for too many super armor bailouts. Don’t chase him too hard, and watch out for his quick teleport which gives Hulk’s laggier ground moves a lot of grief. So be sure to (super)jump enough. Air jab/short = really good tools in this fight.

In this beginning stage, I like to go after Doom off the side with either assist-covered fierce Gamma Rip (for disruption & general harassment) or Gamma Crush (for big damage/finishing off). Most S/Ds call Doom fairly indiscriminately at the beginning just to control space, so the odds of softening up Doom & possibly getting rid of him this way are pretty good. Use gamma charges as needed for optimum positioning (as always).

If you’ve been able to get rid of Doom this way, great, you’re ahead of the game. If not & your opponent has gotten about 4 levels, get ready to deal with The Trap.

When the orbs start, I generally SJ, clap at peak of jump, blocking descent, repeat (steer clear of Doom AAA as much as possible, of course). After 2 reps of that, 1 lvl worth of orbs should be (nearly) gone, the opponent didn’t get to teleport behind you, and he only got 4-5 chips for his trouble; optimal outcome. :cool:

If you are on the wall with Hulk, you may just want to hunker down there & block. You will get pinned in due to blockstun & eat a lot more chip, but he still can’t teleport behind and as long as you don’t let the orbs/rocks in this is still acceptable. Don’t sit there all day, though… :wink:

Don’t forget that when you do your Gamma Crushes, the Hulk hits an opposing point/assist on either side of him when the super starts & he “bricks up”. This is important, and you should think of this whenever Doom (or any other assist) ends up right behind you. This concept is very noticeable/important in this fight, and shouldn’t be ignored.

So in closing, if you kill Strider early, you win. If you kill Doom off the side, you win. Watch the clock, and watch his meter! If you get S/D offbeat with his levels &/or he starts his trap too early, it makes things alot easier. So force him into burning unplanned meters where possible & prudent.

This is all assuming you have some decent assists in your corner, mind you; a lone Hulk vs. S/D is way tougher (bordering on hopeless).

-Jugg
"Thanks for the positive words on the thread, really helps motivate me to share what I know. :)"


#15

I forgot to mention a minor thing…

If they block your ground chains, cancell them into ground rips if you didn’t call an assist in advance to cover you. Especially if you attempt a launcher or heavy attack.


#16

-To Deathfist and Jugg-
As u know Fri.20th is almost here and I’m already all ciked up:D . I want to know if either of u plan to do a HULK day in tribute to his movie in which I mean playing with Hulk all day at your local arcade or tournament? Also I’ve just now started to use Dash cancel to make my Hulk get in and out of situations faster.
-Dash cancel:dash press PP but cancel the dash by crouching and then pressing PP again-

Would u two recommend this method of playing in order to speed Hulks movement up cause I' ve had some pretty good results so far, but I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. Post any comments and suggestions on this pls.

#17

Strangely enough, my fondness for MvC2 Hulk does not translate in any way, shape or form into an affinity for the comic book character, the movie or anything else Hulk-related. Like most “bigman” characters, he just happens to fit my style of play; that’s all. :slight_smile:


As far as using Hulk as a show of tribute… well, I do that everyday, so there’s no real need to change anything. My team selection breaks down as follows:

Opponent >> me: Team Steroids

Opponent about = me: Jugg/Hulk/XXX

Opponent << me: Hulk/2 random jobbers… :slight_smile:


Yes, the wavedashing you describe is critical to a good Hulk. You really should check out Dasrik’s “Wavedash into throw” thread which takes the concept a bit further in a very useful way. :smiley:

[EDIT: Do a search in the MvC2: General Strategy folder to find this thread.]

Later, all…

-Jugg


#18

You guys play Hulk and don’t do Gamma Charge xx Gamma Quake? That’s like… his best move bar none. Safe headcrush and :wtf: Cable safe! (I’m not kidding either).


#19

Of course we do that; just like most any Storm is gonna do AC XX Lightning super, or any Mag worth a damn can do at least one of his various infinites…

In other words, that’s so elementary to his reportoire that it scarcely merits mention. If anybody needs that spelled out, I’ll probably tell 'em to go hit Gamefaqs & get back to me… :slight_smile:

Besides… it’s not as safe as you make it seem, at least not mid-screen. It works as advertised in the corner, otherwise the rocks will often push them back a little, & then it’s Cable-fried Hulk. It’s still a good move though, as you say; pretty much golden against any potential physical attack (well-timed Headcrushes and other super-quick moves like that prevent this from being an absolute).

So careful with what you claim, you’re liable to get some perfectly good Hulks killed! :mad::eek::lol:

-Jugg