I don't get why U2 > U1

guile

#1

I’m not saying that everyone who uses U2 is wrong, but I just don’t get WHY people use it. U1, despite sucking in SFIV, has retained almost all its properties while others have not. It’s now one of the strongest Ultras in the game, has 11 frames of invincibility, and is faster than U2. It only is a few frames more than flash kick, making it still a viable anti-air option.

Yet, the majority of Guile players use U2. I agree, it has some benefits, like being able to retain damage if it trades, a lot safer than a blocked U1, and can add an extra 200 damage to a flash kick in exchange for 2 EX bars and ultra meter (I don’t quite get why that’s a benefit, seeing as though Guile’s EX moves are so good).

But the question I pose is why it’s generally accepted that U2 > U1. I agree, people are entitled to their own opinion and that U2’s properties may fit the chip/trade/combo style of the majority of SSFIV players. But why does everybody go as far as to say that U1 is worthless and that you should never use it? It’s gotten to a point where I feel like everybody’s talking about Ryu, except the difference being his U1 can be combo’ed off of a ton of things and his shoryu/EX Hadou being a command rather than a charge, making it a lot easier to land the ultra off a poke, and with his U2 having an incredibly stupid range.

But with Guile, it’s different in that his U1 has the range of a normal flash kick, his U2 combos aren’t practical enough to be used like Ryu’s U1, and that U1 can anti air a lot more effectively than U2 can, allowing for that “get out of my face and get into zoning range” threat that Guile can sometimes really need.

So my question is this: Why is it generally agreed that U2 is so much better than U1?

Cliffs for tl;dr people

[details=Spoiler]
[LIST]
[]general population agrees U2 > U1
[
]op agrees with U2 being more useful to a larger amount of people
[*]op doesn’t agree that U2/U1 is 8-2 Seth Gief
[/LIST][/details]


#2

:l: :r: :l: :r: > :db: :df: :db: :uf:


#3

EDIT: this is a short story long of Gilley post’s…

Well, Ultra 2 can be preformed while being mobile, while Ultra 1 is stationary at best (Focus absorbing to dash to Ultra 1 is possible), that fact alone gives Ultra 2 so much love.

Ultra 2 can beat fireballs at range for good amount of damage, where as Ultra 1 needs the usage of dash to ultra, which is riskier and harder execution wise.

Guile should not be jumped on in the first place. I dont know about your experience, but I think EX flash kick does the job well against pretty much every jump in, while Lk flash kick needs timing for deep jump ins, Hk flash kick for far away jumping attempts, Guile High kick for anticipated medium ranged distances jumps, and Ultra 2 for neutral jumpers like Honda/Chun/Barlog.

Why would anyone jump on Guile, let alone a charging Guile with Ultra 1?

Also having a second projectile (which can chip damage awesomely) is much more prefered than having another anti air. However that being said I can not look away from Ultra 1 heavy damage, so using it as anti air (well even some good players may start jumping recklessly after my 4353543rd sonic boom) may be valid, especially for my online play.


#4

Safer
BetterChip
400+ raw damage
comboable
easier execution
more practical uses
more opened mind games.
Give advantages in match ups


#5

I consider U1 in some matchups, but generally you can get the effect of U1 out of FK FADC U2. Sure there’s not as many invincibility frames, but if you trade then you just get the U2 without wasting the FADC. There are situations where U1 will work where FK FADC U2 will not, but U2 has other advantages.

You can use it to kill fireballs and FA and other whiffs on reaction, you can use it as an anti air while playing the spacing game with sobat and bazooka knee, and you can use it as reliable chip in certain situations.


#6
  1. You can punish jumps-in while walking back on reaction using U2
  2. You can’t immediately punish/charge db when opponent jumps in on reaction using U1

#7

The only matchups where I think I would consider using U1 are the ones that involve one-time, BIG damage punishes… Zangief (EX greenhand punish), Boxer (mk super > U1 against dash strait), and Guy (lk super > U1 against lp hazanto) are three that come to mind… but even in those matchups I still think U2 is superior. Having a “perfect” AA without a down charge vs. Gief is priceless. Not to mention in all of those matchups I end up throwing out a ton of flashkick FADC’s. Now in SSF4, that = damage. Even still, those three examples of using U1 above could be accomplished with U2 just as easily, or easier. It just does a bit less damage.


#8

U2 recovers fast after it is blocked, plus it is a very good anti air if used correctly. U1 sucks ass


#9

Im a Guy main and just wanted to say that U1 is actually a better choice for Guile vs Guy. If youre playing against any decent Guy player, hes going to be dropping command elbows on you like there is no tomorrow as it beats out all flash kicks unless the flash kick is done wayyy late, and then it still trades, and considering there is a gap between Guile and his Sonic Hurricane, Guy would slip right into it. also, if you try to do it on Guy’s wakeup to chip-kill him, he can mk tatsu for free because it goes through projectiles, and it will hit you btw. the only thing that its good for Vs Guy is if he tries to bait a flash kick on your wakeup by backdashing, he’ll be caught by it, usually at the very tip because SH range > flash kicks. then again the backdash thing applies to everyone.


#10

a trade is all guile players need, since trade = free sonic hurracane. not to mention that sonic hurracane can also be done in combo with FADC. flash explosion does not offer any of these 2. I have not used FE since I got Super, that shit was a waste of revenge bar


#11

99% of the time it doesnt trade vs elbow. it only does if flash kick is in the first few starting frames which is difficult to time. a good Guy player knows to wait until right before guile wakes up to even jump. if i have my elbow coming down at the peak of my jump right on your wakeup, theres nothing guile can do except block / FA.

on another note, bushin flip can (and most likely will) land in the space between guile and the hurricane or guile will get grabbed, either are not good for guile


#12

it seems like you are comparing a perfect Guy vs a scrubby Guile. If your Guy is so perfect to always space guile that good, wtf is guile doing?
I just answered your questions why u2 > u1. Ultra 2 has chances of payback if Guy fucks up, for u2 guile has to be stationary and good guiles are not like that.


#13

But in Super, with everybody else’s damage nerfed, it’s one of the strongest ultras in the game. To put in comparison, it does as much as T. Hawk’s U1.

And as for whether or not it’s a viable antiair on reaction, I think that’s completely up to the player. My reactions are actually pretty good, and I can AA people with U1 all day long.

But thanks for the comments. It really helped me understand what the whole deal was about.


#14

All it comes down to (and this is something newer players eventually wrap their head around) is that damage isn’t everything. Sure it hits hard, by why does it hit hard? Because it’s relatively difficult to land. Sonic Hurricane has a lot more effective ways to land it and otherwise use it.


#15

Well this was the original idea for Guiles U2


#16

Ehh… to the dude talking about using U1 versus Guy, I wouldn’t really advise it. Bushin Elbow drop can beat that shit clean as well. I’ve done it (using Guy) and had it done to me (when using Guile).

U2 is such a great utility ultra. At certain ranges you can throw it out for almost no consequence. Throwing fireballs against Guile when he has charge in mid-screen range is practically suicide for Sagat/Ryu/Ken/Rose/Sak/Akuma/DeeJay/Gouken/Chun… you get the point.


#17

You know, U1 may be really good now. But I would’t know that because I’ve not used it once since U2 was available. U1 was such a POS in vanillia, it’s tainted my very soul. It’s too hard to land, too weak when it hits, can’t combo worth a damn, has literally two setups… yeah, it sucked bad. Once U2 came out, I never looked back.


#18

:l: :r: :l: :r: > :db: :hcb: :ub:
:razzy:


#19

I like U1 better. It’s a hundred times easier to land than U2. I can bank on some moves on block, AA some others, and use whiffed pokes as a counter. Flash Explosion is the way to go, I think.


#20

Huh? This has already been gone over, U2 is much easier to land than U1 is. Hurricane punishes just as many moves on block as U1 does, and more two. Its safe on block ( i think) and can counter too.