I feel like Ive hit a wall


#1

OK so SSFIV is my first fighting game that Ive tried to play seriously (besides some dicking around with TvC). My roomate and I have been steadily improving for a while. Weve both gotten some characters C ranked on xbox live (I mostly play Adon, he mostly plays Ryu), I think we have a fairly good concept of wake-up game, mix-ups, and cross-ups. But I feel like our progress has kind of halted.
I dont really have any concept of terms that I hear like “footsies” or “zoning”. There are tons of videos that explain combos, mix ups, and other things that I am comfortable with now very well. but I cant seem to find any that explain things like: why pushing the opponent back toward their corner is desirable. Or why you should try and go for pokes instead of just turtling against opponents poking and waiting for a chance to DP, which seems to work very well. Also, I hear that mashing throw is a bad habit, but it seems to work very well for me, what is the downside?
Are there any good tutorial videos on these ideas? any help anyone wants to toss my way?
Thanks in advance.


#2

If you want to learn footsies and understand it, go here and look at footsie handbookhttp://sonichurricane.com, alot of info to understand footsies and videos for examples on what they talking about. To answer some of your unanswered question:
Cornering: You want to get your opponent cornered because they can’t wall backward to space their pokes like they would midscreen. They basically are handicapped and at your mercy when your find the the certain distance from the corner where their moves are slightly out of range and your pokes will counterpoke.

You can turtle and play lame, its effective if you stick to it 100%. THe reason people play foosties and go for pokes is to bait out opponents poke, and when they whiff, you can counterpoke while the extended limb is recovering, which will lead into your big damage combos if you know what your punish combos are.

Dont mash crouch tech because people will catch on and will do counterhit setups (frametraps) which means they do a series of attack in which if you press throw at the wrong time, their poke will beat it out and they will get the counterhit which leads into big damage combos. You are better off taking the throw damage (150ish) then some 200-350 damage counterhit combo, i play dudley, and i love people whole press buttons during my counterhit setups, leads to 300-400 damage combos when i got meter. Just calculate your risk and see your opponents habits to decide when to tech throws or when to just block straight up


#3

An article that gave me an epiphany to footsies is Buktooth’s Pro Tip article. Very good read.

Shoryuken - Street Fighter Pros Share Their Secrets to Winning - Day 3: Buktooth

To be honest, learning all the rest really comes with experience. You just have to mold yourself into good habits, get out of bad habits and look to improve.


#4

thanks much, that actually answered a lot of my questions. Ill try and work on this stuff. I also probably need to get my anti-air a bit better. I often cant rising jaguar on reaction, but I guess thats just practice.


#5

practice & don’t mash.


#6

are you really thinking while the match is going on, or are you playing on autopilot?


#7

Mix it up. It seems you’ve been playing on auto pilot, applying the same playstyle against every opponent. my advice is to play another character. take a break from your main and pick up someone else. I promise after you put a good amount of time into someone else and return to your main, you’ll see improvement. If you like Adon’s playstyle you might like Cammy


#8

as for zoning:

[media=youtube]d0cFs5mHQC4[/media]

Skip to 1:00

thats one of the best explanations ive seen, also the fact that its showing super turbo is largely irrelevant. the concept applies to all 2d sf games


#9

Yo these are actually really good questions I will answer them:

  1. Pushing the opponent into their corner is desirable because you get to choose the distance to fight at and they just have to deal with it. Most all character also have combos that only work in the corner or do more damage in the corner etc. Think about an extreme example of Dhalsim vs. Zangief. Dhalsim’s optimal range in this matchup is close to full-screen, his overall goal in this matchup is just to keep Zangief far away while poking away at him and slowly wearing him down. Zangief’s goal in this matchup is to get in without losing all of his health before he gets in. Usually, but not always, Gief only needs to get in one single time and the match is over. Once Dhalsim is in the corner, even with Gief far away, Gief can “see the light” and is already well on his way to getting in on Dhalsim.

Also consider that, midscreen, backdashing on wakeup (or teleport) is Sim’s pretty much only wakeup option other than block or reversal super, but in the corner this is not an option anymore.

  1. Turtling and waiting for opponents to make a mistake is a valid way to play, especially when you are against someone with a lot of bad habits. Against weaker players you generally can in fact just sit there and wait for them to jump into your DP’s. Against better players though if you just sit there and don’t even poke they are going to do something like, as Ryu, just slowly crouching forward xx fireball you into the corner. If you literally sit there and don’t poke and just wait to DP, no one good is going to jump jump for no reason into your DP, and you can’t exactly reaction DP many pokes in the game. Against anyone remotely decent this isn’t going to work and even if you play an extreme turtle Guile or Sagat, you’ll have to have good zoning, spacing, pokes, and fireball knowledge to force people to jump into your anti-airs.

  2. I’m assuming you’re talking about mashing crouch tech… Basically a lot of “mid level” players build nothing at all into their pressure that punishes crouch techs. For instance you might fight a Ryu who only ever does a throw as walk up throw, jump-in mk tick throw, cr. lp tick throw, etc. You can basically just tech when you see him walk up into throw range or crouch tech with proper timing and you’ll always tech against this player. A better Ryu would see you doing this and start doing strings like cr. mp, cr.mp, which puts a big enough gap in between hits (a frametrap) that if you mash out the throw you will get counter-hit by the second crouching mp. When he does a walk up throw he might walk just in range as you’re about to wake up but then step back just out of throw range and do a cr. mk xx hadouken. If you mash the throw you’ll just get hit by the combo. When you first play against someone you can kind of just wait to see what kind of strings they use and crouch tech, but if you get punished once for crouchteching you’ll need to start using it very sparingly.


#10

Yo these are actually really good questions I will answer them:

  1. Pushing the opponent into their corner is desirable because you get to choose the distance to fight at and they just have to deal with it. Most all character also have combos that only work in the corner or do more damage in the corner etc. Think about an extreme example of Dhalsim vs. Zangief. Dhalsim’s optimal range in this matchup is close to full-screen, his overall goal in this matchup is just to keep Zangief far away while poking away at him and slowly wearing him down. Zangief’s goal in this matchup is to get in without losing all of his health before he gets in. Usually, but not always, Gief only needs to get in one single time and the match is over. Once Dhalsim is in the corner, even with Gief far away, Gief can “see the light” and is already well on his way to getting in on Dhalsim.

Once Dhalsim is in the corner Zangief is permanently at his optimal range unless something lucky happens for Sim (guessing right a lot). Once Dhalsim has Gief cornered, he can just kind of sit there at optimal range and even if Gief gains some ground, he has a very very long way to go until Sim is cornered.

Also consider that, midscreen, backdashing on wakeup (or teleport) is Sim’s pretty much only wakeup option other than block or reversal super, but in the corner this is not an option anymore.

  1. Turtling and waiting for opponents to make a mistake is a valid way to play, especially when you are against someone with a lot of bad habits. Against weaker players you generally can in fact just sit there and wait for them to jump into your DP’s. Against better players though if you just sit there and don’t even poke they are going to do something like, as Ryu, just slowly crouching forward xx fireball you into the corner. If you literally sit there and don’t poke and just wait to DP, no one good is going to jump for no reason into your DP, and you can’t exactly reaction DP many pokes in the game. Against anyone remotely decent this isn’t going to work and even if you play an extreme turtle Guile or Sagat, you’ll have to have good zoning, spacing, pokes, and fireball knowledge to force people to jump into your anti-airs.

  2. I’m assuming you’re talking about mashing crouch tech… Basically a lot of “mid level” players build nothing at all into their pressure that punishes crouch techs. For instance you might fight a Ryu who only ever does a throw as walk up throw, jump-in mk tick throw, cr. lp tick throw, etc. You can basically just tech when you see him walk up into throw range or crouch tech with proper timing and you’ll always tech against this player. A better Ryu would see you doing this and start doing strings like cr. mp, cr.mp, which puts a big enough gap in between hits (a frametrap) that if you mash out the throw you will get counter-hit by the second crouching mp. When he does a walk up throw he might walk just in range as you’re about to wake up but then step back just out of throw range and do a cr. mk xx hadouken. If you mash the throw you’ll just get hit by the combo. When you first play against someone you can kind of just wait to see what kind of strings they use and crouch tech, but if you get punished once for crouchteching you’ll need to start using it very sparingly.