I have some general questions. Thanks if you can answer these


#1

Hey guys I just have a few general questions. Thanks if someone can take the time to answer these.

  1. What is the difference between a Poke and a Normal?

  2. How can I tell by reading frame-data if something is a true block-string?

  3. How can I tell by reading frame-data if a particular move has invincibility frames?

  4. Frame-traps only work when you are using normals with frame advantage. Is this correct? So if I use Ken’s cr. MP twice in a row which is +2 on block and has 5 startup frames, then that means there is a 3 frame gap for the opponent to poke or reversal through?

  5. What is the most effective way to retain and memorize frame-data?

  6. Let’s say my opponent does a DP and I block it, would that be considered a whiff punish? Or is it only a whiff punish if their DP misses entirely?

  7. V-trigger gauge can only be gained through taking either regular damage or chip damage. Correct?

  8. What is the difference between regular counter-hits and crush-counters?

  9. Is it possible to reversal through a frame-trap?

  10. For each hit in a combo, the damage scales by 10%. Is this correct?

That is all I can think of for now. Thank you.


#2
  1. A poke is just some move you use to pester the opponent at midrange. Many characters’ st.mk is a great example. Used carefully, many fireballs can make for good mid-long range pokes.

  2. If there is no gap. A move that is +4 on block and a second one that hits on the 4th frame form a true blockstring. It’s the same thinking as behind combos - getting hit or blocking a move puts the opponent in a helpless state, connect something else within that helpless time period and you can extend it, dealing damage, chip, set a good spacing for yourself, or condition them to block so you can go sneak in a throw.

  3. Invincibility frames are not listed in the raw frame data of startup, active frames and recovery. You need a more detailed breakdown of a move’s properties to find that.

  4. 2 frame gap:
    B = blockstun F=free R=recovery S=startup A=first active frame
    Opp: B-B-B-F-F-F
    You: R-S-S-S-S-A
    If they have a 3f move, they can try to trade, but your cr.mp should crush the jab due to the priority system. They have to get their move out in 2 frames or do something invincible.

  5. You generally memorize what is safe, what punishes what, what combos into what moreso than remembering the data of most moves. It can be useful to know the properties of some key moves in more detail, but even then it’s mostly startup and advantage on block.

  6. whiff punishing refers to punishing attacks that miss entirely. A blocked DP is not that, even if you’re holding a party and then deleting half his lifebar.

  7. And using the V-Skill

  8. Don’t know exactly, but crush counters should be nastier with a higher damage multiplier. I’ll leave it to someone else to list the specifics.

  9. Yes. Like in the Ken cr.mp example, if the opponent gets into his invincible startup within those three frames, he’ll beat your trap. Of course, if you think he’s going to mash out a DP, do cr.mp and block. He’ll sail skyhigh and you’ll score a full punish.

  10. No clue, sorry.


#3

Thanks! So a poke is essentially another word for a normal with long range. So a jab for instance would not be considered a poke, but St. MK or Cr. MK would. Is that accurate?

Hm, I’m a little confused about that. So the frame advantage on block and the startup frames of the subsequent attack have to be the same in order for it to be considered a true block-string?

That makes sense. May I ask what kind of attacks are commonly invincible? I know that a MP DP would be one of them but that’s all I know lol.

Wait, it’s a 2-frame gap? Cr.MP is +2 on block and has a 5 frame startup so wouldn’t that be 3 frames?

Cool, that makes sense!

Whiff punishment only applies when the move misses entirely, got it. :slight_smile:

Noted!

No prob.

Wow! That’s insane. I didn’t think you could reversal through a frametrap but maybe it’s just cause I don’t really know how to identify frametraps that well but I hope I can grasp them soon.


#4

cr.mp hits on the fifth frame:

B = blockstun F=free R=recovery S=startup A=first active frame
Opp: B-B-B-F-F-F
You: R-S-S-S-S-A

If the opponent jabs:

B = blockstun F=free R=recovery S=startup A=first active frame
Opp: B-B-B-F-F-A
You: R-S-S-S-S-A

There would be a trade, but your button is heavier and in this game the heavier button wins.

Now if it’s a DP?

B = blockstun F=free R=recovery S=startup A=first active frame I=invincible frame.
Opp: B-B-B-F-F-I
You: R-S-S-S-S-A

Your second cr.mp won’t hit an invincible opponent, you will be stuck in the animation and the DP will hit you.


#5

Sorry I’m not really understanding the diagram that you’re making. Can you explain a little simpler? Thanks xD


#6

They list the state of the opposing character and your character frame by frame.

Like this:

http://i.imgur.com/7uL3ZS8.gif

If you hit them = hitstun, hit them again while they’re in hitstun = combo
If they block = blockstun, hit them again while they’re in blockstun = true blockstring (ie. with no gaps)


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#7

Interesting… But back to my other example for frame-traps, I cited one of Ken’s Frametraps using Cr.MP which is +2 block and has a 5 frame startup and you said that would be a 2 frame gap, but wouldn’t that be a 3 frame gap? 5 - 2 = 3?


#8

No.

Frame 0: Ken in last frame of cr.mp #1’s animation, opponent in blockstun.

Frame 1: First frame of cr.mp startup. Opponent in blockstun.

Frame 2: Second frame of cr.mp startup. Opponent in blockstun.

Frame 3: Third frame of cr.mp startup. Opponent free to act.

Frame 4: Fourth frame of cr.mp startup. Opponent free to act.

Frame 5: cr.mp connects.

Now ask yourself, what can the opponent do? A throw hits on the 4th frame of its animation, so a throw started on Frame 3 would get counterhit by cr.mp before it becomes active.

Jab? A jab connects on the 3rd, so in most games you could force a trade. In SFV, heavier buttons win trades, so a jab’s no good. It would just get counterhit.

The only good options the opponent has are to block or to do an invincible move. If he’s invincible on Frame 5, the cr.mp won’t hit. Ken is stuck doing the animation, though, and can’t block for a few years. The shoryuken or whatever will hit helpless Ken and win.


#9

Ok, turns out that the framedata I’ve been using for Ken’s Cr. MP is inaccurate and it’s actually +1 on block. So that would mean that it’s 5 frames on startup and +1 on block and if you subtract those two values you get 4, so I went into training mode and used Cammy’s 4 frame Cr. LK and I was able to successfully counterhit it everytime with Cr. MP which leads me to the conclusion that frametrap gap’s are calculated by subtracting the startup frames of a particular move from the frame advantage on block and that will give you the number you need to determine how tight the frametrap is and what kind of moves it can beat. So since it’s a 4-frame frametrap, that means I was able to beat out any attack that was 4 frames or higher. If I had used that particular frametrap against a normal with 3 frames, it would have beat the frametrap everytime.