I sold my soul to rock and roll (OG SRK now running Community @ CAPCOM)

It makes me really sad to see what a chilling effect the abuse of the copyright system has had on people. A heads up on the law:

For one, you have nothing to fear from stickmaking. There’s nothing legally actionable in either building a stick from the ground up or modding an already-built stick. In Sega v Accolade (where Accolade figured out how to manufacture stuff for the Genesis without Sega’s consent), the court ruled that building a device that required discovery of the game console’s interface requirements and modifying console firmware was fair use. Think about all those Mad Catz controllers and stuff; they suck, yes, but they don’t have permission from the console makers and yet are totally legal. You’re cool on this front for sure.

SF vids are also most likely fair use, although there hasn’t been a court case on it yet. For a work to be fair use, you gotta consider the purpose of the new work, the nature (what medium the work is fixed in) of the new work, the amount taken from the original work, and the market value of the new work (like, does the new work have an impact on the market for the original work, or does the new work enter a market in which the creator of the original work could be expected to enter). Well, the purpose in SF vids is spectating and learning new things, which probably isn’t actionable. The nature is that of video, which is an entirely different medium from that of the original work (which is a game). The amount taken from the work isn’t a whole, it’s just videos of the work; the point of the original work, that is, Capcom’s Street Fighter game, is in interacting with the game by playing it. Taking video of it takes only the viewing of the work, and considering the nature of the work, there’s no way that’s enough to be actionable. As for the market impact of SF vids on the original work, if you’re just filming yourself or a tourney and putting the vids up for free, that’s totally fine. It has no negative impact on the market for the original work (if anything, it has a positive impact) and doesn’t really “enter” a market at all, considering it’s not being marketed. If you’re selling the videos, you’re probably still all cool, considering it’s not hurting Capcom’s market for video games and it’s probably not a market that Capcom is going to ever enter.

In the interests of full disclosure, I should say that there’s an argument to be made that Street Fighter videos are “derivative” works, which is basically where you make something new out of something old. That said, a derivative work is one that is not transformative but exploitative, that is, something that doesn’t change the work a whole lot and seeks to make money off a market that should be the original work’s creator’s market to exploit. SF videos are extremely transformative and, especially in the case of the free ones, are not seeking to exploit a market that has ever exploited or ever even sought to exploit. There’s also the possible issue of the End User License Agreement (EULA), which might expressly forbid the making of SF vids or something more nebulous that could cover vids. I just looked through my CCC2 manual and it says nothing about this, and neither does the game say anything on startup except for “All Rights Reserved.” The right to impede a fair use work is not a right that can be reserved, so again, I don’t think this can stop people from making videos.

Anyway, don’t worry about stickmaking or Street Fighter videos, don’t feel you need to censor yourself on either topic. Lots of companies try to bully people using the copyright system, but Capcom isn’t one of them.

PS I guess I should say that I’m a law student and my area of concentration is copyright and technology law.

Maj, i chimed in a bit on the 3d issue in an existing thread, you can look up my posts there, i’ll be replying again soon.

UltraDavid: While I don’t disagree that the law in the end might rule for the stick/vid maker, it rarely gets to that point just because of the time/money/trouble it takes to fight the case. So I would still tread carefully on that, because i’m sure even if seth backs it, if the legal dept doesn’t like it, it’s gg.

No offense, and this is certainly a discussion to be had elsewhere and this is the last I’ll mention it, but if the legal department doesn’t like it they can go suck my ass. Copyright law has already been perverted from something that was meant to incentivize creation of science and art by giving temporary legal rights and the economic benefits conferred thereby to the creators so that society would end up with more science and art in the long run to something that exists for the good of certain businesses to the exclusion of everyone else. The copyright industries’ legal departments often seek to expand things so that they have even more protection and so that the general public has even fewer rights. One of the ways they do this, apart from seeking new legislation and fighting new court battles, is by saying things like “All Rights Reserved” and “No photographs or reproductions of this event are permitted of any kind” and such crap. That’s actually not the law; you CAN take pictures of a baseball game, for example. But it’s a pr campaign, it’s meant to convince people that the company has a legal right that it doesn’t actually have. If Capcom’s legal department decided it would try to remake the law on when the public has the right to fair use through that kind of shenanigans, I’m sorry, but I’m not willing to lose that right.

I couldn’t care less if the legal department didn’t like it. Stickmaking is 100% legal; there is legal precedent that has stood since 1992, this is the established law. SF videos are most likely legal as well, and barring radical new legislation that guts the fair use exception to the point of uselessness or me reading the situation ridiculously incorrectly, I believe it would hold up in court. And like you mentioned, there’s no chance it will get tested in court because the time/money/trouble needed to do it would be way more than overkill and the only possible economic outcome would be a negative impact on Capcom products from people like me kicking them to the curb.

Wow, that’s really cool. Thanks for the explanation. I’m not too worried about the case of selling videos, because i don’t think there’s a profitable market for combo videos. Even the famous videos in Japan sell barely enough copies to buy a decent capture card. If it came down to counting money in court, i’m sure it would be easy to prove that net profits are in the negative. It’s just that some of us have put a LOT of work into making videos and it would suck to get some kinda legal action from Capcom ordering us to take down websites and stop hosting videos. But from what you’re saying, it seems like we’re pretty much safe.

Obviously there’s still a copyright issue with using songs as soundtracks for combo videos, but even in that case it wouldn’t be Capcom doing the suing. Would you say that it’s safer to use some BGM from the game as the soundtrack for a combo video? Or is that just as risky as using a song by some random band?

It’s definitely not safe to use music from labels under the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA); they sue everyone they can. You’ve probably heard about them suing people for allegedly downloading pirated files online, including an older woman with multiple sclerosis and mothers who have never operated computers. For the RIAA, it doesn’t matter if something is legal or illegal when they’re considering whether to sue. They use the legal system like a bludgeon, coercing people with it to try to stop piracy. Even if using their music in videos were completely legal (which it probably isn’t), they still might sue you, and the cost of legal fees of actually fighting them in court, even if you could win, would be much more than what they’d ask to settle, which, as I hear, is usually in the nature of $5000 or so.

That said, however, the chances that they’ll notice SF fans putting their music on SF videos is pretty super small, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The only reason they’re suing people who have allegedly shared music files online is because it’s something widespread they seek to stop.

Using music from the game itself is easier to defend, since you’re using footage of the game in which the music is already a fixed part.

Maybe I should make a new thread with this stuff? I’m actually just about to go chat about all this with my copyright prof.

I’m interested in some of the legal realities of these issues, but just to put it back in the realm of the theoretical: Capcom is not looking to drop a copyright hammer on any of their fans.

There’s already plenty of shameless, large-scale profiteers bootlegging every successful franchise. One object of community is to showcase all the amazing stuff these games have inspired–Capcom is getting fully behind that, and no one is looking to bust some kids (RIAA-style).

best,
Seth

*Respect, and congrats.

I registered at the Capcom Boards long ago but didn’t post much since it’s pretty quite over there most of the time. I’ll try and post some more. This is great news, congrats! :clap:

I don’t quite get this thread but I’m supposing it’s good news for Seth, so I say congratz.

So what exactly is going on? Is this a sign for Capcom wanting our input for SF4? I hope they do. Surely SF4 is the most anticipated beat 'em up sequel moreso tha any Tekken or Virtua Fighter sequel?

Basically I say this for SF4 and I’ll be happy:

Keep Ryu and Ken, Keep it 2D but a higher stage of 2D and having good fighting systems and good new unique global characters.

I dont know but i been thinking…we could get current games more attention too. We can show them how high level players play via match videos and other things like that via YouTube(as long as its legal…in which it should be). We can also discuss about match videos too, let the newbs ask, and also let some more experienced people just talk strategy and discuss in a more high level play. Get them to know the scene more, we want more newbs to play, help them out and etc, as stupid as some questions seem. A friendly community can foster better players.

I sure as hell know that i wasnt remotely interested in Smash Melee until i saw some of the crazy things that you can do that was in high level play…and i sure as hell was a newb thinking A Groove sucked(not knowing what Custom Combos were) because it can only do level 1 supers and being wowed seeing RC and Kara Throw for the first time. Exposure might be a good idea, let them know what SF can really be instead of some stupid predictable cpu bashing…just a sugguestion i hope its helpful. I sure know that high level players make me want to improve, even though i might never be as good as them.

EDIT: I dont know but we can also address existing problems with exisiting games and other sugguestions, for example, despite any arguments about RC, in CvS2 RC was not supposed to happen…while changed in Xbox and GC, the arcades were not…Also there was no CvS2 Pro (like CvS1 Pro) so that we would actually use the GC/Xbox games competitively in the first place. I like how Guilty Gear keeps getting refined, and while i am not asking them to release game after game of a slightly different previous game…some refinements and something to back up a game to make it tournament viable when they do change it, would be great. (Side Note: Make S Groove Stronger…)

We are still using MvC2 from the DC because the arcade did not change with the PS2 changes…not that its a good port by some but you know what i mean.

Here’s my suggestion:

Try to get 3rd Strike/MVC2/CVS2 re-released on Playstation Network as downloadable titles for the PS3. Make them support 1080p and 720p (like Tekken DR), and with proper 4:3 aspect ratios within the 16:9 window (like HSF2 and UMK3 on XBLA). Since there is pretty much no way to play these games without lag on an HDTV (even with PS3) it would be nice for fighting gamers to actually be able to play these games on their newer set-ups.

Is this what you really want? Remember, it takes money to do things and capacom is a company out to make money. I think they would do better to focus their attention on new games. and on the upkeep of the current markets that they have.

MY HEAD ASPLODE

i didn’t realize there was all this discussion going on around here. i’m reposting something i put up on the Capcom boards earlier to see if it’d instigate any discussion. the aim of the thread was to discuss barriers to delivering SF4.

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i think there’s a definite problem with getting ideas for the game, not least of all an innovative new engine. everyone and their dog wants every character/feature to be in SF4 that’s impossible to accommodate everyone. big surprise. what i’m wondering is how the idea people end up picking the good ideas.

honestly, who has the time to read everyone’s ideas to pick out the best ones? ideas for a game engine can only be described so well in text, so i imagine those with good ideas will have to be serious enough about putting them into a playable demo of sorts. how often does that happen?

i know SF3:NG was beta-tested in Japan (the results of which included the addition of Ryu and Ken). was it ever beta tested in the US? did a non-Japanese audience (e.g. american players) get much input into the design process of the new engine?

the volume of play in Japan and the overwhelmingly (my speculation) higher standard of competition allows Capcom to get much more educated input on games, from the players who’ll probably be playing them most anyway. i can’t see any reason Capcom would take posts on a message board seriously.

i’m kinda wondering what japanese players are putting on their SF4 wishlists actually, or what things in people’s SF3 wishlists actually made it into SF3 (NG, 2I, or 3S). i know it’s not impossible to see a fan’s work manifest itself into a game - take Alpha 3 Karin, for example.

since we’re on the Capcom BBS, would it be possible to get actual examples when requests made by players and fans actually made it into a game (for the SF series)? not to confirm my cynicism, but to get an idea of the kind of effort/time/genius it’d take for an idea to worm itself into a game. Karin was a prime example. were there any other Karins?

From what I heard, a lot of HF was influenced by american competitive gameplay.

I’m mostly talking over at the Devil May Cry forums over there because the majority of the SF threads at the Capcom Boards are not very interesting right now to me. Given some of the topics I think the average posters over there are 13 and below, just about the average Gamefaqs member age… We still need lots more SRK members over there IMHO…

Congratulations.

Get the people who made zsnes to do your netcode. I don’t know what kind of hoops and stuff you have to go through to make stuff work on Xbox Live or what Sony or Nintendos online services are like but let them know that good netcode is high on the list of things we want.

can we get CFAS???

-cries on the inside-

I did post up several videos a few years back in their EX3 sub-forum, but with the current design there isn’t really any place thats appropriate for it.

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.capcom.com/BBS/forumdisplay.php?f=246

I even posted some hotness up in there.

xo,
Seth