I suck!

dan

#1

See title! I have a couple of questions that I can’t figure out for myself through online play or browsing the stickies:

Am I supposed to have a time advantage after blocking an opponents move (to get a hit in)? If so, can someone tell me some good punishing moves to use after a block, because even medium punch seems too slow after a block and I end up getting kicked off my feet by a floor attack (always happens when I’m fighting bison- psycho crusher, i block, then there goes my legs)! Or should I just be dashing away after a block.

Another thing that tends to decimate me is Balrogs buffalo rush (at least i think its called that), which has two varients where one punches the body and the other punches the legs. How exactly do you tell which it’s going to be? Or should I just dash away/ jump over him when he does that? His pokes also seem to have priority over every one of dans moves so a couple of tactics on balrog would be welcome.

Last thing that really kills my health is the “approach” when fighting a sagat player spamming fireballs. Does dan have any moves that are higher priority than tiger knee? It seems it beats out danku so I’m at a loss about how to get at him. If i jump in for a crossup i end up getting tiger uppercutted too.

:slight_smile:


#2
  1. Varies depending on move and how it hits.
  2. Block low for the Dashing Straight (or whatever it’s called) and adjust to high block if you see over head punch (it’s slower than Straights).
  3. No. Well not strictly true, Kouryuken would most likely beat it.

#3

good tip on balrog, thanks. ill be trying that out on my friend who likes to spam that move >:)

although i dont think koryuken is going to help against the characters who like to throw their fireballs endlessly and then special uppercut when i try to get the jump on them (especially sagat! he can also use his tiger knee while you are midair), as i cant use it midair, and i cant really move forward without jumping. is there a good tactic to beat that?


#4

Spacing. If you get it right air lk.Danku will beat or trade many of his AA attacks. Safe jumps will work against Sagat but getting the timing and the like will be difficult online. FADC can be used but you may well eat a second fireball afterwards.

Walk in duck/block, walk in duck/block, EX KRK his next fireball/ block his TU or TK, punish.

Walk in duck/block, walk in duck/block, Ultra his next fireball.

Really against Sagat your options are pretty limited. You have to condition him to limit his options (won’t work on some people tho), lots of FADC baiting (be careful with that tho, the TK has insane range), a little clairvoyance doesn’t hurt either.


#5

Don’t forget cross-ups on Sagat. Also, if you can drive him into the corner, you’re half way home.

-h


#6

My advice : stop trying to beat spamming Sagats. Stay in a corner and make the match last as long as you can, by air taunting above his low fireballs, and crounch taunting below his high fireballs.

He might come for you eventually, and then you get a chance for a fair fight.

If not, taunt till the end and die proudly in accordance with the arcanes of Saikyo-Ryu. Hopefully, you’ll have made him sorry for wasting 3 minutes of his time doing the same move again and again.
Of course, the absurdity of such a match will be lost on many players and you can be sure those will get back at you with insulting messages. Then, you can always invoke their sacred fear of a close range fight with Dan the Man.

Note that this tactic applies to all the fireball-spamming characters such as Akuma, Gouken, Ryu, Ken, Guile, Seth, Dalhsim, Chun-Li, Sakura and other Dans.


#7

I do the opposite, I get in and stay in. Although recently against certain types of Sakura and Chun players (and a lesser extent Ryu and Ken) I will spam Gados at full screen to build meter and force them to come to me. Sagat and Akuma I don’t do it against, Akuma’s demon flip thing and non ex multi hit fireball make it a losing proposition, Sagat has too strong of a mix with the height and speed of his TS which when coupled with the insanity that is kara-hk.TK shit gets ugly right quick.

My win rate against Sagat is ~27% (which is shit) but I never get schooled, I’d say every match I lose my opponent has maybe 100-200hp left. They make 20 mistakes I make two or three.

A few tips:
Throws are absolutely your friend.

Many Sagats are very poor players or have a very limited set of tricks that they use (this applies to most characters online really), read your opponent, look for patterns, all of that what has been said before. A few specifics:

Many Sagats will only use either TK or TU, they don’t mix them up (except maybe for very specific circumstances), if they use the TU all the time they are just * waiting* to get baited with a FADC. If they TK you’ll get kneed in the face.

With the second type watch for low attack x low attack x TK strings. KRK those bastards or throw them after the TK, don’t get cowed and become block happy as they are most likely trying to condition you to block so they can throw you across the screen and re-start their TS bombardment.

You have the frame advantage with KRK and throws to counter TU and TK both, use that to your uh advantage.

Does he like to jump in with that elbow? Dash under it and do a KRK (not if he is doing it from too far away or you’ll get tagged as you start the dash), auto correct should turn Dan around and Sagat gets a fist to the taint.

This one is tricky (it can be used against many characters, difficulty and effectiveness varies), after knocking an opponent down in the corner who has a charger Ultra meter, dash/walk in, and jump over them and perform an air lk.Danku. If they do an Ultra, the arc of the Danku will carry you safely over it, dash in and punish. If they do a TU or TK you should be safe, this is where spacing and timing come to play.

One trick I do, never jump unless it is followed by an aerial Danku of some type, this is dangerous but you are conditioning them to expect a certain duration and distance of your jumps. After this conditioning from near fullscreen perform a jump without a Danku to bait a punish that will whiff. If they are a f.hk type buffer Ultra and perform as you land, you should be rewarded by a super cool Ultra freeze screen of what appears to be Dan preparing to chomp Sagat in the nads. If they do TU, you should be able to do your punish combo of choice, if they do TK you may well be screwed :bgrin:

That’s it for now…


#8

20 mistakes on their part should net you a win :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

Not when you taunt whiffed TUs :rock:


#10

Then it’s your own fault that you lost :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

Yeah… I don’t really do that. 20 mistakes is me indulging in a little hyperbole :slight_smile:


#12

Hehe thought as much. Well good news is soon we’ll be able to make more mistakes (like one more mistake) and Sagat won’t be able to make as many :tup:


#13

Sorry sorry sorry, what do you mean, Sugami?? Is it in relation to the Haoh Gadoken only, or will Dan be officially a bit stronger and Sagat a bit less broken in Super SF4?


#14

Sagat does less damage and takes less damage in Super, reports are his health is 1000-1050 rather than 1100 and all his Tiger Uppercuts have been dropped to 100 damage (as opposed to 160 or 180 I think). Also his s.LK is now 2 hits and only cancellable on the first hit, gives it less effective range.

Dan’s officially “stronger” because he’s rather scary with Ultra and 2 bars, almost as scary as Ryu is now.


#15

My little 2 pennies on fighting Sagats:

Lots of them like to spam tiger-balls-or-whatever-they-are-called-I-forgot and if you jump over them, they do HK (easier to do than a Tiger-upper I guess). If you do a little LK Danku so you “hop” on the air you will probably stay on the air long enough so you knee Sagat’s head just when he starts putting the leg back on the ground (so he’ll fall to the ground shortly after).

Which brings me to my second point. Getting him (or any other opponent, IMHO) on the ground is the best strategy. Preferably against a corner. Once your opponent is on the ground, apply as much pressure as you can and don’t let them get away. Be well aware of powerful wake-ups (Sagat’s got the tiger uppercut) and wake-up ultras.

My last point is precisely covers Sagat’s wakeup: When I manage to knock him down against a corner, I usually try “jumping over him”, as if I wanted to be the one in the corner. I time it so I’ll be on the air, just above him, when Sagat wakes up.

This is a huge temptation - HP Tiger Uppercut!

… but not so fast bald pirate! HP Tiger Uppercut moves forward as well as up. Frequently Sagat moves “away” from the corner while I’m safely “landing” on it. I usually punish this with a throw … back to the corner! Then I repeat again.

After a couple of these baits, they are too scared to do Tiger-Uppercut wake-ups. So I then apply pressure otherwise. ^^

I still have to be careful with the wake up ultras, through.

I’ve also used this same tactic against bad Ken players. And it was very satisfying.

Beware, good players (less than 10% in my experience) will know and expect this tactic, and will know how to counter it (I’m not saying how this is done - let them ask on the Sagat or Ken forums).


#16

I read this when it was first posted, and even though I don’t play Dan, I found this post to be full of awesome, and it gave me a new found respect for Dan and the people who main him. :slight_smile:


#17

Thanks dude, compliment goes straight to my heart :slight_smile:

You’ve made it to the Dan forum, and even posted a comment. I see that as a first sign of Saikyo power awakening in you. I give you a few more weeks before you give in to temptation and start maining Dan. Eh, just in time for Super :))


#18

Just to get back to the original post…

It depends entirely on the opponent’s move, different moves have different recovery times. Against some, you have all day to do whatever punish you want (a blocked Shoryuken, a blocked Tiger Uppercut, a blocked Change of Direction, most Ultras, etc.). Other moves, like Bison’s Psycho Crusher or Sagat’s Tiger Knee, are still punishable but you have to be faster with them. Dan’s fastest move is his throw. If you’re in a situation when you’re in doubt what you can do to punish, throw the opponent.

There’s a lot of situational punishments as well. Ryu’s sweep can be punished on block by an EX Danku, Zangief’s Green Hand can be punished on block with close MP > Danku, Gouken’s dash palm can be punished on block with a full Super Combo. Those are things you’ll just have to pick up via experience, or by studiously going over frame data. :wink:

Use Dan’s Focus Attack against most of Balrog’s dash punches. He does have two that break armour, but one is slow and telegraphed (the overhead) and the other launches you away to prevent combos. Against the other three dash punches, your Focus Attack will absorb them, you then release it and get a crumple on Balrog, allowing you to dash forward and do a c.HP > HK Danku or a Super/Ultra to punish him. You want to try to encourage him to use the armour breaking punches instead, and then you can either block those or react to them with an EX Danku on sight to beat them (and break his armour, if they’re the EX version).


#19

Thanks for all the helpful tips guys, my game is definitely improving. :slight_smile:

heavy punch > heavy danku is godly indeed.