If only FGs had proper mod support


#1

Seeing the current hype around the various dota clones/sequels these days, makes me sad that FGs emerged from the arcade/console world, and thus doesnt have much of a culture of proper mod support.

Sure, we have some hacks of the various PC versions, and rainbow edition SF2, but nothing like proper, easy, official, modular, mod support that other PC game genres have.

When we see that mods like Counter Strike and dota have created entirely new subgenres of games that top companies have tried to emulate, its clear that mods are a powerful way to rapidly explore different ideas and balance/mechanics tweaks.

Even more than that, mods are a powerful way to deliver these ideas to an audience - with word of mouth, a mod for a popular game (with proper mod support, auto-downloading etc.) can spread far faster than a seperate game or a hack/patch.

Whilst 2D FGs are a fairly mature genre (and there are enough FG creation tools / accumulated knowledge out there to make games like Vanguard Princess and Melty Blood possible), I think theres a lot of lost potential in the newer subgenres of fighting games, where we find games like Virtual On, the PS3 Naruto Ninja Storm games, the Gundam vs Gundam games, Powerstone, Smash/Melee, etc. Even Demon’s Souls, Devil May Cry, etc.

Especially in the case of the Naruto game, where we have a solid engine, netcode (japanesebad netcode, but nevertheless), a large cast with good animations and other content, and a reasonable range of game mechanics. All crippled by some serious design flaws that could have been easily fixed with a mod.

And its a fairly new style of gameplay that needs to be explored in more depth by a variety of different mods experimenting with ideas and changes. Something really new and great might have been discovered.

What makes me even more sad, is that now traditional PC game genres are being drawn into the console world, and losing their once-mandatory modding features…


#2

Sup MUGEN?

Also, there’s better things… like Vanguard Princess, I think it’s called?


#3

it’s a nice idea but on the other hand plenty of people think sf4 is a good game and i dont want those guys exercising their creativity in this way


#4

Pretty much this.
My thoughts - and this is an incomplete statement, but hopefully you’ll get the gist - FGs aren’t the type of game that you can create a “Oh, it’s a Matrix themed fighter on the SF engine” - It doesn’t make sense. FPS games are all generally the same thing. The only thing fighters have in common is a life bar of some sort.

Summary - They’re fine the way they are. Fan made fighters typically suck, unless you’re talking about something like SkullGirls, which looks hopeful, and that’s one in a million.

Also - matchmaking and sifting through dumb “mods” is dumb. blocking is cheap / blocking off… or all characters that are not Guy are banned


#5

I couldn’t imagine the type of confusion that one would get trying to play a mod-friendly fighter online.

boots up game

sees lists of various servers, some with the titles “Throws disabled, too cheap”, “One fireball every 5 seconds”, “Recharging ultra”, “No blocking”, “Blanka nerfed”, and so forth.

Yeah, I’ll leave the modding to the actual company, thanks.


#6

This post exactly, FG players are the saltiest in the business, if you let them make the rules you’re gonna end up with shit like “special moves only” etc, rules that are fair game to them


#7

The SF4 PC Mod community made WAAAAAAAY better costumes than the ones Capcom charges actual money for.

That’s about the only good thing I could say about any FG modding scene.


#8

Mods are good, but it does not look like the FG community would have the maturity to build things such as Q3’s Pro-Mode and agree on it. Pro-Mode is, to me, the best thing that has ever happened to FPS games, and is still the only variation I would bother playing to this day. In fact, it is not even capable of telling good games from the bad ones, for the most part.


#9

Wow, people hating on the FG community so much, hahah.

I dont think its that bad, cream will still float to the top. Think of it this way, Mike Z has been getting a lot of excitement for Skullgirls. But making your own game from scratch and keeping a professional team paid and organised is hard work. If the barrier for entry was a little lower, we might see a few more Mike Z’s out there making good stuff too. Sure, there will be a sea of garbage, but everything has a sea of garbage. We should be used to ignoring it by now.

I find it hard to believe that FPS players can be discerning enough to make CS popular, RTS players DoTA, and yet we think somehow FG players are inferior to those two groups. And I dont even particularly like CS nor DoTA.


#10

There are already mod-able engines, MUGEN and 2D Fighter Maker. Look at what those churned out. I was on the fence about releasing the content development tools when I was working on a certain project. The MUGEN community pretty much convinces me that no one should have the ability to mod an existing fighting game.

Furthermore, the logic and balancing issues of fighters are way more complicated than FPSs. There really isn’t any way to compare the amount of work that it would take to mod a fighter compared to say, Quake.


#11

Vanguard Princess?


#12

Not to mention id Software prepares their games to be modded.

As for “MUGEN community”, I am sorry, is there really such a thing? In my infinite ignorance, I acknowledge that, I have never seen a MUGEN tournament in my whole life. As for MUGEN itself, unless I got something wrong, nothing prevents some dedicated ones to go through the hassle of understanding their code and remove the BS in it. I saw the characters and modes in there as mere examples of what could be done in terms of functions, but not really in terms of balance, fun, gameplay deepness and such. Say, would it be really wrong or stupid to pick Hyper Fighting, make it so the engine is close to HF in MUGEN, and add Cammy, Dee Jay, Hawk and Fei? IMHO, not necessarily. The point is, no-one has ever bothered - and let us assume the HF engine was actually easy to understand, which is not really true - and even if one did, odds are the great public would not give a shit. Hell, the SF2 community would probably not give a shit: they would stick to ST/X and HF.


#13

Creating a bad fighting game from scratch with ripped sprites cannot be compared to fixing a nearly-good fighting game with some generally-agreed-upon tweaks. MUGEN is pretty much a strawman. Besides, I counter with Vanguard Princess, which was made in a FG maker too.

Just take my PS3 Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 example - with a few carefully chosen tweaks to certain mechanics, and some buffs and nerfs to certain characters, it could actually be a competitively viable game, rather than the completely unviable game it currently is.

Also, looking at history, the key to making a great competitive mod is not the mod itself, but the game it is hosted on. If the game is amazingly popular (quake/wc3/HL/SC), then a sufficiently large enough population of competitive players will be bored enough to try it out, give feedback, and begin a positive feedback loop that creates a great game.

A guy who makes a MUGEN game and plays it for lulz with his friends can’t compare to that. The secret to making a great competitive game is ridiculous amounts of playtesting by skilled players.