If they were to rebalance Yun

yun

#1

How should they do it?

Reason I ask is: I think Yun is a dream come true for some people. Nothing to do with his dominance, just the character and his move properties and the experimentation that can be done.

My own view (but i’d like to read yours) is: he needs nothing changed about him, except his damage. That’s it. Leave the crazy hit boxes and frame advantage, it’s all good.

Right now I think he has vanilla damage. What I mean by that is he has the sort of damage I’d expect him to have if he were among the vanilla cast with their higher damage outputs and health. If he appeared as he is now in vanilla, he’d be at average in terms of damage output, but be at home with his other advantages, and be considered a balanced member of that cast, not crippled or S tier.

What looks particularly out of place to me are the damage on his dp and palm, and his hard normals (hit harder than balrog’s). Take those down to 100 or so and he’d feel much more right, and people will find him more likeable to face (or to play, if they feel lame playing S tier but would otherwise like to play him).

Since CAPCOM almost certainly are going to rebalance him at some point, I think we should get the ball rolling now on giving input as to what exactly could be done that wouldn’t run a train over him.


#2

He has to change his smp into shoulder loop. It’s too good. Frankly, he doesn’t really need to change anything but that. His damage output is okay in my opinion. Capcom’s only going to really rebalance him if they release ANOTHER new version of ssf4. Otherwise, you are looking at the final version of ssf4 with Yun’s godlike dominance in it.


#3

I really hope they don’t change anything. Not only the only reason I’m playing it because I finally found a sf character with a lot of options. If they remove that there will be no point in playing it.
And the damage is quite low already, no need to nerf it even more.


#4

Make him have like old Seth-ish health, so while Yun is trolling me with all his stupidly safe low risk/high reward options, I can always have my random ultra save the day.


#5

Mash reversal inbetwen. Problem solved.


#6

He can bait for a reversal right after it works the first time and punish you right after.


#7

Crazy right? It’s almost like there are mix-ups in fighting games!!! Seriously man…


#8

I haven’t checked the frame data, but I do know that it’s seriously tricky and pretty much everyone ends up falling for it. That or you can block and patiently try to counter somehow…something that many of us don’t unfortunately do. Unless we are in EVO, I don’t think anyone’s going to be that cautious when playing a match. Either way, somehow it feels unmatched. A decrease in health would be a good idea though.


#9

Either give him old Seth health values or scale Genei Jin further. Many people think Genei Jin damage isn’t an issue but I guess they don’t realize that Yun can kill you with his Ultra afterwards in a 50/50, give you an incredible guessing game that does anywhere from 130-250 damage while putting him in position to continue his mix ups, automatically puts you in the corner, comes out if Yun touches you, and is basically guaranteed in a game. I honestly am kind of surprised that people don’t make a bigger deal about Genei Jin…guess they don’t realize what a serious advantage having an automatic “get your ass to the corner” combo is. Doing anything else to Yun will probably make him terrible in whatever department they changed, and knowing Capcom, Yun’s probably screwed.

Shoulder loop is annoying for some characters to deal with but it’s hardly unmatched and can be pretty dangerous for Yun to do. Kind of ridiculous that Yun can make a read with HP Shoulder on projectile users or cross up Shoulder anyone into 500-600 with Genei Jin alone though…


#10

Trust me, smp light shoulder is an insane footies tool. If you’ve seen the videos or experienced it yourself, you’ll know that it’s very annoying to get out. Daigo and the other top yuns CONSTANTLY use it. It’s very fearsome. And yeah, genei jin damage would also be another good idea, however during the reset, remember that they can escape with 2 bars and a simple dp (in the situation of most characters).


#11

My list of possible changes to Yun:

-Lunge punch does not knock down anymore OR is more unsafe on block, also goes for EX -> now -2 on block.
-Increased recovery on dragon kicks AND/OR less invincibilty or complete removal of invincibility on dragon kicks (they say he has bad defence, lets give him dudley’s defence and make him waste meter)
-Genei damage decrease/ damage scaling turned up
-Increased start-up on C. grab -> start-up 9 frames (Why? So your crouch-tech option select might actually hit him out of it)

They dont all have to be incorporated. I would be glad with just the removal of the start-up invincibilty on his dragon kicks.


#12

9 frame command grab? lol.


#13

Yeah that is retarded.

Just like the fact Yun’s EX Grab beats E.Ryu’s Super. I’d imagine it beats Akuma’s as well.


#14

How does Yun’s command grab beat out Akuma’s super? Akuma’s super is a zero frame startup grab, while Yun’s command grab is a 7 frame startup (5 frames ex).


#15

Iunno man, all I know is when I was playing a good yun online and I put him in the corner, I knew this guy likes to ex grab if I get too close to try to pressure him, he flashed yellow. So I kara-demoned off of E.Ryu’s hop kick(forward+MK), point blank. He still grabbed me.

I’m just guessing Akuma would lose as well. Unless E.ryu’s demon is different or maybe I was just a pixel off from being point blank. It still felt like shit, and I had to turn the game off right then and there.


#16

I’m not suire of E. Ryu’s demon startup, but you kara’d, so you would initial startup from that. Through that, he grabbed you when you were in your startup frames. If it was point blank demon from akuma vs command grab, you would definitely win.


#17

I’ll try to justify the 9 frame c. grab I proposed. Makoto’s RH karakusa has a start-up of 9, but doesnt have the range that Yun’s c. grab has.
Fei’s C. grab has a start-up of 14 (!), but he doesnt have the throw range that Yun has. Why would a dive kicker with more offencive options than both Makoto and Fei get a faster start-up AND get more range. I would say its fair to slow it down to at least 9 frames since he already has enough options.

Anywayz, if they would only remove the start-up invinvibility on his dragon kicks (except for the EX-version) I would call him pretty balanced. It would pressure him into wasting meter if he’s on the defencive and that would either delay his genei jin or give you the chance to pressure him if he decides to keep it. He keeps his godlike offence, but loses his decent defence.


#18

That’s because Yun’s ex cmd grab is throw immune. It’s as simple as that. Shit, this game has been out for like… 8 months?


#19

Judging from past video game balancing (FPS, MMORPG, Fighting)

They can just lower his damage output. Maybe tweak LK Upkicks to hit crouchers but increase the frame disadvantage of it.
Make palm feint not low invincible.
Make EX-command grab throwable.
Make EX-lunge 0 on block, not +1

I think I made a post somewhere for this on what I would lower. It’s just a key few moves and that’s pretty much it. His Geneijin will just scale down a lot overall if you lower palm down to like 85 or 90 damage, drop overhead kick to 65 or 70 damage in GJ. Everything else is fine where it is.

I would not take away anything else. His health is low, his damage is pretty high, I’d tone it down. By then, he’ll be low risk and moderate reward. I don’t feel that too many characters deserve to be as low risk and high rewarding as Yun is right now. IMO, you get rewarded for what you put in. Other characters get great damage off punish or a good jump in (the risk) but Yun can stay grounded and do a lot. Just lower the damage, it’s pretty much enough.

If you nerf too many of Yun’s moves, he’s pretty much as worthless as the 10 Super characters before AE balancing and buffs.


#20

People who dont want him changed most likely struggled playing this game before. Now they got a character who is practically safe across the board and they are in heaven.There is a lot of rationalization going on about the simple fact he is extremely easy to use and win with.