I'm having trouble understanding why people use Sagat over other shotos

sagat

#1

Other shotos seem to have a lot more tricks and tactics than sagat does in any give situation, and correct me if I’m wrong, but their normals are also faster. Most important they have a down-back anti-air which Sagat doesn’t have. Are you guys picking Sagat because stylistically he’s appealing, or is there some strength this character has relative to other shotos that I’m just not seeing? He’s fun to play, but in many situations he just doesn’t seem to have great options. And his “keep off of me” game, especially in the corner seems so tactical and non-instinct based, that it requires more thinking than reflex. Maybe this is just because I’m new. I’m liking the character, he’s fun to play, until you get into a handful of situations or face fast characters like yang or cammy. Thoughts please.


#2

He has other pros and cons when compared to shotos.

He has a better fireball game then all of them definitely. If you know how to zone you can shut down a lot of characters gameplay (although this can be quite tricky to learn)
He has some great pokes for keeping people out as well. St.mk has very good range as well as cr.hp being quick and dealing good damage.
If you know how to anti air and kara tiger uppercut you should absolutely be controlling the air space at least 1/3 screen in front of sagat. Good sagats will use fireball traps to bait opponents into jumping just to let them eat a kara TU.
Also his ultra 1 does great damage off of a trade TU -> f+hk -> ultra 1 for a meterless ultra.
Angry scar is also pretty sweet if you need that damage in a pinch.
Learning to use safe tiger knees can be a great frame trap tool especially if you get the last active frame lk tk is plus 2 on block I think?
He also has some damaging frame traps such as counter hit cr.hp link tiger uppercut

I would say he is much more difficult to learn than the other shotos because he has this range right in front of him where he isn’t very strong. If you learn to zone well though you can win a lot of matchups.

In ultra he will be much better as vortex won’t be as effective on him.
Also in ultra when U2 connects full hits he will have a HUGE advantage in fireball wars as full screen EX fb into U2 will do like 360ish now which is crazy from just an EX fb.

Plus hes a bad ass haha


#3

Hes not a shoto.

Thats why.


#4

Thanks man, good stuff.


#5

Hey, great post. Appreciate that! :slight_smile:


#6

Sagat has some very clear strengths relative to other shotos. Horizontal range on uppercuts is a very underrated thing and Sagat has more horizontal range than anyone, and he can also adjust his horizontal range. That means he has probably the best AA game in normal play (i.e., he’s got problems on wake up because of 5 frame DP, but he’s good the rest of the time).

His fireballs aren’t all-conquering. Other shotos have better aspects to their fireballs. E.g., Ryu’s comes out faster so catches people trying to jump more often. But overall, his fireballs are the best. High, low, fast, slow, kara’d (two kinds), EX – lots of options. Plus there’s big damage off EX into U2 in fireball wars.

He also has probably the best way of breaking focus of all of the shotos, with the possible exception of Ryu, because of his Tiger Knee. It has adjustable range and chips.

He also has some good normals. Three frame c.LP, cancellable s.LK, c.HP (counter-hit into DP), MK, HK (big hit box, AAs well, catches people trying to jump a lot). And he can hit confirm into an ultra with two bars for lots of damage.

His only significant weaknesses are on wake-up due to 5 frame DP and big hurt box, and slow movement speed. Now in Ultra it’s even better for Sagat because he can DP FADC backdash and still connect Ultra whereas Ryu and Ken have to risk forward dash to land Ultra off a yolo DP.


#7

Best. Post. Ever.

Oh look, a Bison traitor lurking the Sagat for… Oh wait… So am I. >.>

I should really read up on my Sagat stuff, didn’t know cr.hp on CH can follow up with a dp. Was hitting that shit all day yesterday on CH and just thought I was Godlike on reads.


#8

haha. Yeah a good frame trap is meaty cr.lk , cr.hp (i forget the frame gap but if they are teching to cr.lk timing expecting a throw they will get beasted by a CH cr.hp) link hp.TU. If you have meter for fadc f.rh to ultra it does GREAT damage… I think 570+? Can’t remember.


#9

You’re damned right I’m a Bison traitor! You’ve seen all the posts man. All the frustration. One day I was like “Why am i going through this? The character isn’t even that fun to play.” And from that day forward I dropped him. Haven’t looked back. Also considering that he’ll still have fundamental issues in USF4, I’d have to be insane to continue dealing with the character. I’m on the Sagat gravy train, and I’ve got biscuit wheels.


#10

Look at it like this, sagat and bison both got MUCH better in ultra. So either way you get to play a buffed character. I actually think bison is going to body sagat now 0_0.


#11

As a Cammy player I recommend Sagat players just throw all the fireballs all the time, we hate that.


#12

um… what? haha. Let me direct you to xiao hai vs. any player with a fireball from the topanga world league…


#13

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTChfO871n9V_liZfCamgww7URDBTLoN7ApH5BmGu2M3zBTC-R_


#14

Thanks brah, might try it out today if I get time to play.

I raged hard the other day, laggy gief jumping for free, CAN’T AA OR TU. Gief jumped -> Did TU shortcut -> Comes out as CR.HP -> Gets Ultra 1 by Gief -> Picked Bison then kicked him out ftw, cause I’m an ass like that.

Hahaha. I actually liked Bison during the loctest, I saw no real problems tbh. I’m looking to main Decapre, and second Bison if I get bopped. However, I’m trying Juri/Sagat/Ken/Oni, and a few others in case Decapre doesn’t work out. Or at least someone that can destroy/go even with Guile, I can play the matchup, I just don’t see why I should…

Lol when I tried Ultra, I only played two ways (didn’t get to play a good Guile).

  1. Go stupid brain dead with pressure, -1 is nothing. Chun and a few others can punish it with Super… but how often is she gonna have it? If you’re playing it right, she should be forced to use meter…
  2. Counter poke all game. St.mp buff is delicious, people who say it is useless dunno what they’re doing.

Oh no, I got knocked away!

I get by something like a Tiger Knee? Down back until a fireball comes then EX LOLSCISSORS.

Always been a Sagat/Ryu/Akuma fan, I’ve just never taken them seriously in this game. :S


#15

Yeah that EX scissor buff is SERIOUS. I saw Kim1234 LEGIT punish a light punch boom from guile it was insanity. Bison is going to body fireball characters. Maybe guile/bison will be 5-5 though. I agree that st.mp buff is an incredible footsies tool. I saw some max distance whiffs punishes buffered into SK.


#16

I still think it’ll be a bad matchup (that’s why I’m learning Sagat or one of the others), but I can definitely laugh at every other fireball character. I don’t even need to do it on pure reaction. Those dumb Dan players doing full screen fireballs to build meter can suck it too. I didn’t get to play this weekend, so no Sagat training for me. x.x I’m still salty about losing a Gief match to lag, I shouldn’t have to switch to Bison. I guess st.hk and st.mk is a lot easier than trying to tiger shot in lag haha.


#17

yeah don’t TS when he has meter and use those normals.


#18

Played against a Dudley who struggled against st.mk, he must have lost about half his life every round to it lmao. I’m rusty, and I think I have a stick issue, probably wasn’t cause of lag (there was some). First I had failed Tiger Uppercuts, then today, I lost games because ex psycho came out as st.mp…