I'm hotter than you!: Poison Match-up thread * Open for Discussion* (Updated: 8/28/2014)

poison

#1

I will be updating this a whole lot dealing with all of her Matchups and Matchup Notes.

So all the people who plan to be true Poison players be sure to post your findings here. Please only real match-up knowledge.

8/14 = Gief and Adon Updated.
8/28 = Boxer, Vega, Decapre * In Progress*


#2

Abel 5-5

Versus. Abel

Spoiler

Offense:

You really shouldn’t want to mount much of an offense on Abel unless you have a serious life lead; but otherwise there is no reason to. His EX TT, EX COD, EX wheel kick and roll can be the devil on your offense. But, you can also bait rolls properly and throw him on the recovery especially in the corner. Because Abel players will try to roll out or do whatever to waste meter to escape the corner situation. MP AE and HP AE traps are going to be your best options in this match-up for the simple fact the game of cat and mouse starts. He has to try to make his way through the fireball puzzle and if fireballs are placed properly you can get a good idea on what option he is going to do to try to get around the fireball puzzle.

Defense:

You really want to be careful what options you choose to escape the defensive situation. With you standing and him having life lead this become a game of you chase him and then the worry of Ultra 1 because you kind of have to throw fireballs to at least create some kind of space and damage. Abel can and will punish every fireball from a little inside full screen. Your command backflip is a very good option on the defensive because most of his option he has to commit to, and they can and will probably miss among using this to escape the situation. Don’t forget using backdashes and neutral jumping as well; you don’t want to get too obvious and use backflip out of everything but that should be pretty obvious.

Punishment:

Whiffed Tornado Throw/Skyfall = Full combo punish
Poor roll usage = Throw
U1= Your Ultra punish
U2= Anything that Armor Breaks or absorbs two hits of armor. ( i.e EX LMT, EX AE)

Adon 5-5

Versus Adon

[details=Spoiler]-

[/details]

Akuma 3-7

Versus Akuma

Spoiler

[quote
[/quote]

Boxer 6-4

Versus Boxer

Spoiler

Offense:
In this matchup the only thing you really have to worry about on offense is his cr. Jab, Headbutt(s) and EX Dashpunch. MP AE in this matchup is a godsend, it pretty much puts a barrier up against anything he can really do about it Full - Mid Range especially on approach. He is forced to block it and because of the recovery of MP AE you should be able to react to whatever happens in the situation. He can jab you out of mistimed corner pressure so I’d say pick and choose your time to decide this. If you have Balrog in the corner you should really be able to control the pace from there. Step yourself a small bit outside of sweep distance and control him. You have great pokes and option that 8 times out of 10 will stuff or control his options. You really want to just treat this matchup like a stare-down. FYI Your sweep goes under dash punches. : ]

Defense;

Be prepared to block a lot and watch for moves that absorb armor, and your own moves that absorb armor because you CAN use and cancel into LMT for armor break and nice damage and the knockdown. You should be baiting headbutts and EX dash punch as much as possible. You really don’t have to be scared against Boxer when he has no meter you definitely have the advantage here. Just wait it out and punish properly.

Defense:

Blanka 3-7

Versus Blanka

Spoiler

[/quote]

C. Viper 4-6

C.Viper

Spoiler

Cammy

Versus Cammy

Spoiler

Chun Li 6-4

Versus Chun Li

Spoiler

Cody 3-7

Versus Cody

Spoiler

Dan

Versus Dan

Spoiler

DeeJay

matchup

Spoiler

Dhalsim 5-5

Versus Dhalsim

Spoiler

Dudley 3-7

Versus Dudley

Spoiler

E. Honda

matchup

Spoiler

El Fuerte

Versus Elf

Spoiler

#3

Fei Long

Versus Fei

Spoiler

Gen

Versus Gen

Spoiler

Gouken

Versus Gouken

Spoiler

Guile

Versus Guile

Spoiler

Guy 6-4

Versus Guy

Spoiler

Hakan 5-5

Versus Hakan

Spoiler

Ibuki 3-7

Versus Ibuki

Spoiler

Juri 6-4

Versus Juri

Spoiler

Ken 4-6

Versus Ken

Spoiler

Dictator 3-7

Versus Dictator

Spoiler

Makoto 5-5

Versus Makoto

Spoiler

Rose 4-6

Versus Rose

Spoiler

Rufus

Versus Rufus

Spoiler

Ryu 4-6

Versus Ryu

Spoiler

Sagat 3-7

Versus Sagat

Spoiler

Sakura 5-5

matchup

Spoiler

Seth

Versus Seth

Spoiler

T. Hawk 6-4

T.Hawk

Spoiler

Claw 4-6

Versus Claw

Spoiler

Zangief

Versus Zangief

Spoiler

(6-4) Poison

Best Ultra: U1

Offense:
You shouldn’t go for much of any offense against gief unless it is to dash up to throw every now and then. You’re best offensive options is to annoy him with her far standing hard punch, but make sure you use it sparingly as zangief can focus and spd you.
You can also throw out standing mid kick to fish for some way to get into a rekka combo or simply throw a fireball as well. Everything else you do can be command thrown.

Defense:
Anti airs:
What you are going to want to do is remember to use these normals,far standing mp, cr.hp, jump hp/mp,jumpback hp/mp, medium AE, hard punch AE, medium dp, ex dp and Ultra 1.
You want to know what your options are just in case you cant anti air with cr.hp properly. Crouching hp works pretty well in this match up except you have to use it after he comes down from the apex of his jump for it to have a good chance not to trade. If he is too low to the ground it would be best to use her ex dp to anti air. Then of course
there is her ultra 1 you can use to anti air or combo from a Fierce AE when gief jumps on them to get the damage.

Fireballs:
For your fireballs you’re going to want to mix up your medium and heavy ones. It means he will take more chip and regular damage from jumping into fireballs or blocking them. I suggest using her light one if he is full screen and then start using the other ones.
As for her far standing mp you can use that to back up your fireballs to anti air gief at certain distances when he jumps or use far standing hp to push him out afterwards.
If you need to do some sort of string to push him away please use her medium fireball as it is 0 on block so he cant throw you.

Wake up game: (It may be poor but you have a lot of options to make up for it.)

If you get knocked down I suggest mixing up your wake up options. You have 6 wake up options, quick stand, do nothing and stay down, use delayed wake up, backdash, and a dp. Use them all to keep gief guessing what you will have an easier time on wake up. This wont be easy to do as gief can close the distance every now and then so make sure you are on point.

What to watch out for:

When you pressure gief in the corner please remember when you throw fireballs to know that gief can and will command throw you if you do cr.mk to fierce AE. Its not worth canceling from cr.mk unless you do cr.mk to medium AE. Yes less advantage on block but you can avoid being command thrown and losing what you’ve worked for.
If you block a green hand make and you have ultra please be ready to do a cr.lp combo into medium dp. It means you’re able to ultra punish it and if you can’t throw it.
Lastly if you see that you’ve hit gief with a fierce AE in the corner, you have enough time to space your crouching hard punch and do her ex fireball into cr.mk to a medium rekka series resulting in almost 400 damage. (He must be in a crouching position if he is standing replace cr.mk to cr.lp after ex fireball for 290 damage.)
Take whatever chances of damage you can get and back off.

  • Genistar

#4

Poison 5-5

Versus Poison

Spoiler

Decapre

Versus Decapre

Spoiler

Elena

Versus Elena

Spoiler

Rolento 5-5

Versus Rolento

Spoiler

Oni

Versus Oni

Spoiler

[/quote]

[/details]

**E.Ryu 3-7 **

Versus E.Ryu

Spoiler

Yun 2-8

Versus Yun

Spoiler

[/quote]

Yang 3- 7

Versus Yang

Spoiler

Hugo 8-2

Versus Hugo

Spoiler

Offense:
I really don’t think playing offense against Hugo is a good idea in the slightest. His SPD’s can punish everything of Poisons pretty much on block or whiff. I’d say you’re better off running the defensive game in this match-up.

But if you REALLY have to play offense you’re really going to watch your spacing with everything you use. He really does have great options mid range; This becomes a game of baiting SPD’s and etc to make him whiff and punishing him with full combo. You really have to take care of the fact he has good armored normals and armored specials that can and WILL hurt pretty bad.

Defense:
This matchup is highly in Poisons favor. You can really give Hugo a hell of a time mixing up your AE’s and anti-airing with normals. Also, because he’s so big
you can combo after anti-air AEs. I 've found S.RH and properly spaced fireballs to be thoroughly good in this case because you’re already standing and you can go into another fireball, a rekka, a normal or whatever you choose to use after the anti air to guarantee free damage.S.RH also hits extremely high and extremely far and is fairly active in most cases. There really isn’t much else to say here except you still want to be mindful of your placement on the screen and your spacing because an improper use of something can literally turn this matchup back into Hugos favor. He has the damage and the option to take you out once he is in and has you where he wants you. This match is pretty much self explanatory.


#5

** Poison Okizeme Stuff**

Okizeme Stuff

Spoiler

Keep in mind you most likely can’t use AE setups against people who can avoid meaty fireballs. For comparison, characters were tested against back throw, meaty HP AE. (Be aware of the variance between situations and timing; generally, the earlier you can do HP AE, the better. Adjust your play on a matchup-to-matchup, setup-to-setup basis.)

Instances where you’d be punished for doing this setup are in bold. Instances where you can punish them for trying something are italicized. Some moves are not bolded or italicized at all, meaning that either they just end up escaping the setup, or they may or may not punish you depending on your HP AE timing. Try out things for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Abel (EX Change of Direction, EX Wheel Kick, EX Marseilles Roll, HP Super, Ultra 1 Soulless, Ultra 2 Breathless)
Adon (EX Jaguar Kick, EX Jaguar Tooth, Super, Ultra 1 Jaguar Revolver)
Akuma (EX Goshoryu, Ashura Senku, Ultra 2 Demon Armageddon)
Balrog (Boxer) (Any EX dash punch, Buffalo Headbutt, Turn Around Punch, Super, Ultra 1 Violent Buffalo)
Blanka (Coward Crouch, EX Vertical Roll) Ultra 1 Lightning Cannonball, Ultra 2 Shout of Earth)
C. Viper (LP Thunder Knuckle, Ultra 1 Burst Time)
Cammy (EX Spiral Arrow, EX Quick Spin Knuckle, Super, Ultra 1 Gyro Drive Smasher)
Chun-Li (EX Hazanshu, Super, Ultra 1 Hosenka, Ultra 2 Kikosho)
Cody (Zonk Knuckle, EX Zonk Knuckle, Super, Ultra 1 Final Destruction, Ultra 2 Last Dread Dust)
Dan (EX Koryuken, Ultra 1 Shissho Buraiken)
Decapre (MP Psycho Sting, Super, Ultra 2 DCM [reversal])
Deejay (EX Double Rolling Sobat, Super, Ultra 1 Sobat Festival)
Dhalsim (Yoga Teleport, Super, Ultra 1 Yoga Catastrophe)
Dudley (Ducking, Ultra 1 Rolling Thunder)
E. Honda (EX Sumo Smash, Super, Ultra 1 Ultimate Killer Head Ram)
El Fuerte (EX Habanero Dash, EX Quesadilla Bomb [Can EX WoL punish this at this distance?])
Elena (EX Scratch Wheel, EX Rhino Horn, Super, Ultra 1 Brave Dance)
Evil Ryu (EX Shoryuken, Ashura Senku, Ultra 2 Messatsu-Goshoryu)
Fei Long (EX Chickenwing, Super, Ultra 1 Rekkashingeki)
Gen (MP Super Zan’ei, EX Jyasen, EX Oga)
Gouken (EX Hyakkishu, MP/EX Kongoshin, Super)
Guile (EX Flash Kick)
Guy (EX Bushin Senpukyaku, EX Bushin Flip, EX Run, Ultra 1 Bushin Goraisenpujin)
Hakan (Oiled EX Oil Rocket, EX Oil Shower, EX Oil Slide, HK Super)
Hugo (EX Monster Lariat, EX Meat Squasher, Ultra 1 Gigas Breaker)
Ibuki (EX Neckbreaker, Ultra 2 Hashinsho)
Juri (EX Senpusha, EX Kasatushi)
Ken (EX Shoryuken, Ultra 2 Guren Senpukyaku)
M. Bison (Dictator) (EX Psycho Crusher, EX Double Knee Press, EX Head Press/Devil Reverse, Teleport, Super, Ultra 2 Psycho Punisher [beware of crossup??])
Makoto (EX Karakusa, HK Ultra 2 Abare Tosanami)
Oni (EX Goshoryuken, EX Sekisei Jiraiken, EX Rakan Dantojin [watch the crossup], Ultra 1 Meiho Gohado [projectile cancels out], Ultra 2 Tenchi Sokaigen)
Poison (EX LMT, Backflip, Super [not all hits will connect], Ultra 1 Love Storm [projectile cancels out])
Rolento (Stinger jump, Mekong Delta Escape, Super, Ultra 2 Take No Prisoners [reversal])
Rose (EX Soul Spiral, EX Soul Reflect, Super, Ultra 1 Illusion Spark,
Rufus (EX Messiah Kick, EX Snake Strike, Ultra 1 Space Opera Symphony, Ultra 2 Big Bang Typhoon)
Ryu (EX Shoryuken, Super [Trade into full damage for Ryu], Ultra 1 Metsu Hadoken)
Sagat (HP/EX Tiger Uppercut, Ultra 1 Tiger Destruction, Ultra 2 Tiger Cannon)
Sakura (EX Shouoken, Super, Ultra 1 Haru Ranman, Ultra 2 Shinkuu Hadoken)
Seth (EX Shoryuken, EX Hyakuretsukyaku, Yoga Teleport, Super, Ultra 1 Tandem Stream, Ultra 2 Tandem Typhoon)
T. Hawk (EX Condor Spire)
Vega (EX Rolling Crystal Flash, Backflip, Ultra 1 Bloody High Claw, Ultra 2 Splendid Claw)
Yang (EX Kaihou, EX Senkyutai, Ultra 1 Raishin Mahhaken, Ultra 2 Tenshin Senkyutai)
Yun (Ultra 2 Sorai Rengeki)
Zangief (EX Banishing Flat, Double Lariat [punches], EX Running Bear Grab)


After AA cr. HP:

  • xx HP AE (use cr. HP xx HP AE as AA, buffered as one motion). Should hit meaty, preventing jumps. May or may not lose to reversals depending on spacing.
  • LP AE (you don’t have to cancel cr. HP… which is pretty hard to do when twitch AAing…) You recover fast enough to DP a jump-in. They can neutral jump but it just puts you back to neutral game.
  • HK LMT. Loses to reversals, neutral jump, backdash. If you have been using LP AE well, you should beat their block (get in at -1) or focus (armor breaking).
  • HP AE. Should punish their neutral jump. Juggle them or whatever.

(Apparently the spacing can differ for AA cr. HP; you can end up very close to the opponent if they have a “short jump”, e.g. Guile or Makoto, or depending on the distance the opponent jumps in. I’ll check this out later.)

After LMT throw/EX:

  • Backdash, MP AE. Safe, but not much else. If they jump in DP them.
  • Backdash, HK LMT. I’d like to assume that using the above option sets this up.
  • Walk back, HP AE.

May lose to reversal DP based on your spacing, DWU, etc. Neutral jumps should land right on top of the projectile. Follow up with HK LMT, forward dash cr. MK xx MP WoL or f. MP, LP/EX AE… What else can you think of?

  • Forward dash twice and cl. HP or throw. You could just walk forward too. Standard meaty/throw mixup, nothing special. f. MP/cr. LK is an option too.
  • Whiff immediate cr. LP into meaty j. LK crossup. Safe against Ryu’s reversal DP (but not against autocorrect MP DP). DWU wrecks this, of course. I think it’s best used sparingly.

After WoL:

  • Backdash, HP AE. Loses to Ryu’s EX DP (only 1 hit), but beats the rest clean. Situation is the same as LMT above. Neutral jump can avoid it. If you anticipate the neutral jump, try a walk-forward DP.
  • Backdash, MP AE. Stops neutral jumps. Loses to some reversals, as HP AE does. You won’t get a combo from this at all unless you FADC cr. MK xx MP WoL (you have to commit to this pretty hard).
  • Meaty/throw/f. MP/cr. LK/cr. MK mixup. Eh, I can’t think of anything else.
  • Immediate f. MP will corpsehop if you need to escape a corner or something.
  • Forward dash, back dash, [f. MP, cr. LP xx LP WoL]. (Thanks @Ramma). Loses to reversals. Careful, you can’t really mix this with a low due to different timing- so hope that your dashes don’t telegraph your intentions…
  • Forward dash, neutral jump HK (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). A safe jump, safe against 4 frame reversals. Watch for DWU.

After EX WoL, j. HP (hit them on the way up to stay close):

  • Most options lose to reversal.
  • f. MP. Loses to lv. 1 focus, focus backdash (iffy), focus forward dash DP (tight, hard to do).
  • cr. MK. Loses to throw (tight), backdash (seems like just an escape, no punish), trades with 3-frame crouch techs (plink jab tech, etc.). OS into whatever you like (WoL hit confirm, AE, LMT, etc.) or just leave it alone based on how the opponent reacts.
  • cr. LK… is not an option, you’ll probably push yourself out of st. MK range after two lights.
  • Walk-up throw.
  • You may be able to immediately j. LK crossup, but it depends on where you hit your j. HP. I wouldn’t rely on it.

After sweep:

  • Immediate HP AE (the closer you landed the sweep to tip range, the safer). Not really a setup, you just get to walk behind it and stuff.
  • Forward jump, HK/LK (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). A safe jump, safe against 4 frame reversals. Watch for DWU.

After focus crumple:

  • Dash in, late cr. HP xx HK LMT (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). Do the cr. HP as late as you can (after their knees hit the ground?) Done properly, LMT should hit meaty- follow with a cl. HP or cl. HK xx WoL or whatever you like. This setup just about doubles your damage (compare [lv. 2 focus, cl. HP xx WoL 268 damage] vs [lv. 2 focus, cr. HP 170 damage + LMT, cl. HP xx WoL 305 damage = 475 damage) but you’re gonna lose to reversals and such. Given how slow LMT is, I’d say use it sparingly.

After forward throw:

  • Whiff st. LP (mash it), HP AE. Might even cover DWU, there is almost no reason not to do this… It’s very safe against a lot, if not all projectile invincible reversals, too (Decapre’s DCM cannot punish). Follow with HK LMT, forward dash cr. MK, etc., etc.
  • HP AE with early timing, walk forward and throw again (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). This’ll only realistically work if you’ve been manually timing HP AE, instead of whiffing a move first.
  • Immediate st. LK, st. MK, forward jump HK. A safe jump. Safe against 4-frame reversals. Watch for DWU.
  • Immediate MP WoL (x1), neutral jump LK. (Thanks @livecho) A safe jump. Safe, even against 3-frame Shoryuken- but the neutral jump LK is just for looks and can’t connect. Use sparingly.
  • Immediate EX AE, forward jump LK. (Thanks @livecho) A safe jump crossup. Safe against 4-frame reversals- but you just burned your valuable meter for it! Use sparingly.

After back throw:

  • Immediate HP AE. Covers DWU. Can be neutral jumped if the HP AE is done too late, but otherwise the situation is the same as forward throw. If you anticipate the neutral jump, just walk forward and st. HK them out of it. (Thanks SWAG KING YOLO)

After U1:

  • Jump forward, HK. This can’t actually hit, but it’s safe against reversal Shoryuken. One time bait, I suppose.
  • Immediate LP AE. I think you might get this for free.

After U2:

  • You get nothing. Good day sir

No, but really, the spacing is awkward, and the opponent wakes up really fast. I would just backdash and play keepaway, or just try to play neutral if I needed to keep attacking.


In the corner:

After WoL:

  • Backdash, MP AE. (Thanks @Clamper.) You get a mixup with [f. MP, cr. LP xx LP WoL] or [cr. MK xx MP WoL]. The cr. MK will combo; the f. MP will not (it can, but your timing has to be very tight). Your opponent may or may not be able to reversal through, character specific.

After EX WoL:

  • late cr. HP xx any LMT (Thanks Jon Slayton). Hits meaty. Will lose to reversals.
  • forward jump cancel, late j. HK, forward dash (crossunder).

Risky, as crossunders are. You should have enough advantage to beat out 3-frame jabs if timed correctly.

  • Juggle HP WoL into the WoL corner setup above.

Thanks, Drake Aldan.

** Poison SafeJump Stuff**

SafeJumps Stuff

Spoiler

Safe jump set up for shotos (3 frame uppercuts)

Rekka> 2nd hit> 3rd hit, immediate back dash, immediate forward jump lk

RYU:
either stuff’s his DP into an air reset, or the DP whiffs

KEN:
HP DP get’s stuffed into an air reset or whiffs, LP DP will trade in his favor. MP DP and EX DP (4 frame) will hit clean, but you can do another set up for those dp’s which are his AA DP’s and the ones he is most likely going to use*

AKUMA:
DP’s Whiff

ONI:
MP/HP/EX DP whiff, LP DP trades

EVIL RYU:
same as ryu

DELAYED WAKE UP
Rekka>2nd hit > 3rd hit, immediate back dash, cr.lp, immediate forward jump lk

adding the cr.lp compensates for the delayed wake up.

*The 4 frame safe jump for Ken is Rekka>2nd hit >3rd hit, immediate forward dash, immediate neutral jumping HK. It will lose to his LP and HP uppercuts, but those are not the uppercuts a competent ken player will use for anti airing.

** Poison Extra Stuff**

Extra Stuff

Spoiler

Midscreen meterless
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [357 Damage / 455 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [365 Damage / 495 Stun]

Corner Meterless
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx HP Rekkas [364 Damage / 455 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [373 Damage / 430 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP xx LP Rekkas [387 Damage / 480 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [398 Damage / 505 Stun]

Mid Screen 1 Bar
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [370 Damage / 430 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas, J.HK/HP [370 Damage / 550 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas, HP Rekkas [371 Damage / 530 Stun] *Character Specific

Corner 1 Bar
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [396 Damage / 440 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [426 Damage / 550 Stun]

Mid Screen 2 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [432 Damage / 455 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [440 Damage / 495 Stun]

Corner 2 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [448 Damage / 430 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [473 Damage / 505 Stun]

Mid Screen 3 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [445 Damage / 430 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Focus Attack, Cl.HK xx HP Rekkas [446 Damage / 715 Stun]

Corner 3 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [471 Damage / 440 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [486 Damage / 750 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [501 Damage / 550 Stun]

Mid Screen Full Super
J.HK, Cl.HK XX LP Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx LP Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [475 Damage / 755 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball xx HP Super [525 Damage / 440 Stun]

Corner Full Super
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball xx HP Super [525 Damage / 440 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.HK xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [508 Damage / 780 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [526 Damage / 585 Stun]

Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas 3 bars / 140 + 438 Damage / 845 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX level 2 Focus Crumple, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas 3 Bars / 140 + 449 Damage / 855 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Level 2 Focus Crumple, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas 3 bars / 140 + 454 Damage / 880 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas empty Jump cancel, Cr.LP 4 Bars / 140 + 431 Damage / 870 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.LP/LK 4 Bars / 140 + 435 Damage / 870 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.MP/MK 4 Bars / 140 + 441 Damage / 880 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Level 2 Focus Crumple, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas jump cancel J.HK 4 Bars / 140 + 455 Damage / 880 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.HK 4 Bars / 140 + 444 Damage / 900 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Level 2 Focus Crumple, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.HK 4 Bars / 140 + 460 Damage / 905 Stun

and so on…you can probably explore more and find more variety.

So let me explain what is happening.

After a back throw, on Elena, Blanka and Cody, an instant J.HK Lands extremely ambiguous as a cross up. Against Cody and Blanka, it is entirely safe from reversals. Against Elena, She can beat it only with EX DP. Now you can train Elena not to contest it by doing j.lk instead of J.HK first as the j.lk makes the EX DP whiff. Now if you don’t do an immediate jump in HK and pause slightly before jumping, this will allow the opponent to start getting up earlier and their hurtbox will be out in front and you will hit in the front. This can not be seen by the eye and is a true 50/50 if the opponent is trying to block.

Now by utilizing this 50/50 and going straight into a heavy combo like the ones I have listed, we can get some scary results if everything goes to plan.

The main thing you want to pay attention to is the stun value. As you can see, some of the combos i have listed do 900+ stun, and Elena has 900 stun, which would mean that Elena would get stunned right at the end of the combo. This is something we DON’T want. Why is that? well if we stun her right at the end of the combo, our damage scaling is maxed out, and the following combo we get on her stun is going to be less then 10% of its worth. You want to use the combos that end right below their stun threshold so that the following touch will stun them, leaving them stunned with your next combo being unscaled. For example.

Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Empty Jump cancel, Cr.LP 4 Bars / 140 + 431 Damage / 870 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.LP/LK 4 Bars / 140 + 435 Damage / 870 Stun

the first combo ends in an empty jump > land > cr.lp (air reset) and stun critically high at 870/900. Right after that cr.lp I will do an overhead to catch them as they recover from the air reset. This is a very nice and tricky ending that has to be blocked high which is not what people normally do when point blank in front of the enemy. Since she is at 870 stun, and the least amount of stun any one of our hits does is 50, that overhead if it lands will cause the stun, giving us a free follow up combo with no scaling added yet. You can easily land a meterless max punish combo in the 300’s damage range ending in Rekkas for a hard knock down totaling off 90+% of her health. The second combo listed ends in a jump cancel J.LP/LK, this allows us to do a high air reset into a left right mix up with walk under/dash under cross under or not shenanigans, where 1 jab or any hit will lead into stun. Just examples so you get the idea.

So with Blanka you want to do some of the ones that are at least 900 if you want the guaranteed 1 hit away from stun. With Cody you can’t get to the 1 touch away but i mean its only a difference of a couple hits, that’s one basic combo like a couple jabs into Rekkas. Either way I don’t see how you could execute this and lose the round after.

*Also to note, the combos that cancel EX Fireball into level 2 focus crumple are inconsistent on Cody so you might want to avoid those on him and go for the FADC variants, which are easier anyways :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

People can now post, in the thread. Lets get the matchup talk started.


#7

I don’t agree with 90% of your match up rankings


#8

Against Hawk her c.hp flat beats out most of his normal jump ins. It needs to be timed properly though, as it doesn’t have a ton of active frames. It’s almost like sakura timing on c.hp.


#9

I’m thinking Rolento/Chun/Sakura might be difficult matchups by virtue of hurtboxes alone.


#10

Hold one more just in case.

Any examples and reasons as to why?

Right now I’m thinking bully characters are very good agains her. (I.E Yun, Cody, Abel, Rolento. I’ll post my reasoning very soon.)


#11

From what im seeing Eryu is awful. I can’t ever seem to press any buttons against him. Ever. If anyone has any sort of advice for that matchup, that’d be great. Rose is also tricky as you’ll either trade with her Hk or lose to it. I haven’t figured a specific way around it yet as much as I think im just getting lucky with whips.


#12

I think I agree with you on Evil Ryu. It really seems like you’re going to have to out play him Mid-Fullscreen. This also helps to fulfill my notion that bullies are going to be a problem.


#13

For now I think the rose match up is even until either Poison or Rose gets meter. Poison can keep pressure on rose even if she has meter. Just make sure you try to throw her every now and then to make sure they you know she can’t reversal. If she back dashes you have love me tender to use for some nice damage. As for the fireballs. It can go either way until rose gets meter. I say look for unsafe spirals, focus the slides and punish them for now.

For yun, I’ve been using her j.mp to snipe him out of the air.

I think Abel isn’t too much of a bad match up yet. She can pressure him pretty well and I would use fierce fireball a lot so he can’t just roll in.


#14

http://youtu.be/LbWfWwtVhFw

This is a problem.

If she’s sitting or crouching it means I can’t chuck plasma… we’re not even talking about DCM!

wut do?


#15

huh? Just block it from full screen. It’s hella unsafe on block. Mix it up with MP and HP fireball.

midscreen test your waters and throw them out and see if they punish. Otherwise just stick to rekka pressure.

I don’t see it as a problem. Decapre so far hasn’t bothered me much since everyone’s still learning her. But she has to approach you and be unsafe from full screen. (And DCM doesn’t reach full full screen.)


#16

Yeah just block it and punish it, not sure why you’re trying to beat it. If you absolutely must though, just DP it when she gets close. On a side note, as far as I know every option out of scramble can be focused so there’s that.

So I was just messing around with a few things to see if she can punish them or not.

Rolento’s rolls: She can punish all non-ex versions with c.mk or c.mp xx EX Rekka or any version of super as a reversal.

The EX version she can punish with LP super but it has to be a reversal, the timing is kinda tight and you won’t get full damage. You’ll get 240 instead of 330.

Blanka’s balls she has no way of punishing on block.

T.Hawk’s Condor Dive she can punish at seemingly any distance with EX Rekkas. MP and HP rekkas will also work at some distances.

You can DP through all of Dan’s grounded knees beside the EX one. Grounded MK and HK knee can be punished by Poison Kiss. EX Knee can be punished by cr.lp into whatever. Dan’s Cr.HP into any non-ex knee isn’t a true combo on Poison, so you can probably punish him with an ultra or a DP in between that.

From the general thread:

Characters who can be juggled by a fierce rekka after ex rekka midscreen

Guy, Sakura, Rose, Cammy, Elena, Dhalsim, Yun, Yang, Gen, Sagat, Seth, Viper, Dan, Vega(Claw)

From the combo thread:

Currently ex rekka to ultra 1 currently whiffs on (It does work in the corner, the issue is that they fall out too far from the fireball)
Guile
Honda
Dudley
Cody
Fei Long
Adon


#17

cr.mp deals with any attack coming up forward, such as haizanshu,chicken wing, axe kick, guys overhead kick, sakuras tatsu etc… plus the juggle points on her fireballs are really nice against grapplers as you can score a free s.hp on them


#18

cr.hpxxrekkas whiffs on some crouchers, there’s a lot of odd character specific hitboxes on some of her moves it seems. More in depth discussion has been going on in the Q&A thread.


#19

she can punish guiles fireballs with that on reaction too. It goes right under.


#20

I noticed certain combos like cl.st.mp > cr.hp > rekka is easier on some characters and harder on others to connect.