"I'm not Gouken..." Oni General Discussion Thread

oni

#941

I find comboing into SRK pretty much totally pointless. I use either LK Slash or Tatsu pretty much 100% of the time off of TC2. Occasionally I go for stomps if scaling kicks in too much. Anyway, Tatsu and SRK both do the same damage, but you get a LOT of corner distance from Tatsu and it’s easier to follow up after as well.

As far as frame data on safejumps after stomps go, I’ve got nothing. I just approximate the timing and then normally go for crossup MK or LK/HK stomp. Also, meaty crouching MP > throw is extremely good. Once you condition them, you can start doing meaty crouching MP > stomp to blow up the throw tech / backdash.


#942

I’ve discovered that if you are all the way in the corner with opponent, and you EX Tatsu them, you can now follow up with U1(KKK) for 15 more damage than U1(PPP). However, I’m having a hard time doing it in a combo. I think maybe it won’t work – can someone test and see if you can dHP > EX Tatsu > U1(KKK)? I did my testing on Ryu. If pressing opponent into corner, EX Tatsu > U1(KKK) definitely works.


#943

No one’s really understood how to play Oni to his fullest… True or False?


#944

I think people have figured out how to play him. because he wasn’t very viable overall in AE the well known killers who picked him up ended up dropping him. Here is north america you could say that guys like combofiend and gridman did oni justice. Then in Japan guys like wildcat and eita picked him up and did ok with him as well. In those cases they used the way he is most effective in most matchups. Unfortunately these guys went back to their mains in order to win more often. Imo with the overhaul he got in 2012 he is almost like a different character.


#945

I definitely don’t think he’s a different character now. On the contrary, I think he’s exactly the same character but with 50 more hp. The hitboxes on b+mp and lk slash being fixed helps, but that’s the only other buff that has really done anything for me, and again it doesn’t change the way he plays at all.


#946

That’s a shame. Oni has, by far, the most amazing character design out of the entire cast.


#947

Eh, I do very much like the way he plays for the most part. Otherwise why would I bother with him? Haha :slight_smile: I just wish slashes weren’t so punishable (Viper gets free and unpunishable left/right mixups… so do a lot of other characters :slight_smile: and I wish his footsie game was a tad bit better.


#948

Can’t argue with you there. But if his slashes weren’t so punishable he’d be a bit overpowered I think.


#949

slashes are pretty awesome once you stop using them for oki, it just doesn’t seem to be what the developers had in mind when designing Oni. block strings, resets, and FB punishment is where it works best. Oni’s left/right mixup game relies on his air dash xx tatsu, which with the new vertical ex tatsu, I can def understand the argument for him being a diff character.

I think Oni’s biggest weakness has nothing to do with the unsafeness of his any of his moves, all of his specials are fine(including fbs)…its a combination of his damn meter dependency and lack of reversal options that makes things difficult. if Oni’s moves were safe he’d be god tier and there’d be a huge bandwaggon and a bunch of bullshit. I like Oni just the way he is, cool enough to keep me loyal, but challenging enough to keep away dick riders.

as for wildcat and eita, while I did learn a lot from them, I learned a lot more from wao, youhei, gogoyubari, snowfox, and shinochan. they’re all pretty much the shit with Oni, and each of their distinct play styles is a testament to Oni’s versatility and overall strength.


#950

Now this I like.


#951

It’s perhaps a shitty strategy, but sometimes when i fail to get in, and when the match turn into a footsies war i sometimes fadc f+hp (on hit of course), it’s very surprising and help me to get in,. If it’s a counter hit i can combo after. if not i’m still approximately at 0.


#952

No idea if this is a new setup. I have not seen shinochan or other jp onis use it but i just started with oni in 2012 so who knows

forward throw in the corner, backdash, c.mp for timing, jump forward late HK

Ken:
LP srk gets stuffed
MP wins. some times wiffs if close to the corner and you miss time your jump.
HP/EX wiffs

Ryu:
LP srk gets stuffed
MP/HP/EX wiffs

Cammy:
All DP’s get safe jumped
Take care about U2

Sagat:
LP srk gets safe jumped
MP/HP/EX wiffs

Fei:
All DP’s get safe jumped
Take care about U2

Seth
LP gets stuffed
MP/HP/EX gets safejumped.

Akuma
All dps wiff if close to the corner.
Your jumpin becomes a crossup close to the corner
If you are not close, all SRK’s will win
Jump HP/HK will wiff
Rember U1/super

Oni
Exactly the same as akuma

Guile
All flash kicks wiff

Dan
LP gets stuffed
MP/HP/EX wiffs

Blanka
Up ball wiffs, not sure if you can punish <— Found a way. To OS HK tatsu. If blanka backdashes, he gets caught. If he uses ex rainbow ball, he gets caught. If he does EX upball the tatsu autorrects into a HK slash that lands perfectly under blanka so you can punish.
Use jump LK/MK, others wiff
Crosses up

Yun
LK/MK/HK gets safejumped
EX wins

Hawk
EX safejumped
All others stuffed
U2 Wiffs
Super wiffs
U1 i did not test
EX commandgrab wins

Ibuki
Use jump LK/MK as a crossup. Others wiff. Unfurtunatly it becomes a reverse unblockable, she can block it both ways.
EX DP wiffs most of the time (she wakes up 2 frames faster i belive)
Remeber her grab ultra.

Only ones i tested, other slow reversals obviously gets safejumped and you can smack a OS DP if you want. Since its in the corner it will catch all backdashes.

On sagat and cammy, i would advise you to use jump LK instead of HK/HP. This is because if their faster wakeup time and sagats large hitbox. Your hp/hk will wiff most of the time because of the active frames and wierd hitbox issues, other times you will land on the other side of them and even if you are “safe”, you will be blocking the wrong say and get DP’d

Finaly, jump HK/LK will cross up on some characters, but most of the time will just be a normal jumpin. jump HP has more active frames and more dmg, but the hitbox is not as good and will wiff on some characters.

Edit: Plink the MP. There is no room for error against 5frame reversals. Against the SRKS that wiff you can mess up a bit and the srk’s still wiff.

Edit nr 2000:

Teleports seem to get reversed. They see you jumping at them, and are trying to teleport out of the corner. But because oni crosses for a split second, they end up teleporting into the corner again. Poor akuma


#953

Ah nice. After cornered forward throw on charge characters I normally do LK tatsu into corner and then crossup HK Slash or just jump crossup to kill charges. It’s good to have a solid forward throw corner setup against non chargers, thanks for the tip I’ll have to practice this.


#954

Remember that against anything but Deejay EX upkicks and chun li super it does not mater if they have charge. You can just safe jump and punish/OS :slight_smile:

And you could probably just empty jump against both and bait it.

Edit: OS u2 against Honda gives full animation on all reversals and backdash :slight_smile: Input is a bit tricky tho


#955

Yes Gridman posted this exact same safejump a while ago, but he didn’t record the results from every character just the one’s with 3 frame invincible reversals. Good shit anyways.


#956

I’d say it matters against things like EX Pyscho / Dash Straight, etc.


#957

EX Psycho gets OS’d (or punished with far HP)
Dash straight gets absorb you are able to block.


#958

Online Oni, good cus of the nature of online. (Hard to block in time due to online)

Offline Oni, garbage.

LoL.


#959

What should be ones mindset using Oni? I don’t know how I should play when using him. His fireball is not good for zoning and his mix-up is not very strong to play as rushdown ? And his defensive is lack to play turtle.
However, I still like him (maybe because he is like Doraemon(blue color) and Barney(pink color), lol) so please give me the best advice when playing as Oni.

And about mix-up, does Oni has any mix-up with his J.MK when he is jumping ? When jumping his J.MK is cross up but I cannot find another stuff that non-cross up to mix with it,headache


#960

despite all of his tools, Oni plays a very basic and fundamental game. I think the biggest thing with Oni is controlling space, both on the ground and in the air. no one should feel comfortable jumping at Oni for any reason. s.hp may be the best AA normal in the game, and it’s very satisfying to be able to smack fools in the mouth for lazily jumping at you from mid screen. he also has c.hp for when people try to jump over you or from a steep angle, a 3 frame dp that juggles into tatsu/dp/f.hk/super/ultra. s.mk, c.mp, and f.hk also work but in very specific situations. all of this is great because AA is of the highest priority to Oni.

he likes footsies early in matches to build meter for his L/R mixups and big damage/stun combos. his f.hp functions a lot like a one hit rekka much of the time. it has great range, comes out fast, and you want it to hit at the very surface of the palm because of how ridiculous the hitbox and active frames are. most of the cast should fear stepping into its range, but you don’t want to be predictable with it because it is punishable by command grabs and focus attacks(focus spammers get a two hit standing roundhouse/forward to the face)

basically you want to be working around the same range as Fei…just outside of sweep range, where you can step in and out while safely tagging them with your pokes, which by the way are very range specific in that a few are great at some ranges but complete ass at others, and the ranges really aren’t that far apart so you have to be perceptive. they break down something like this:

f.hp, f.mk, f.hk - far
**f.lk, s.hk, c.mk, s.mk, s.lk - mid (**stuffs everything under the sun)
s.mp, c.mp, b.mp, c.lk, f.lp, c.lp - close

f.mk is great for getting in, and it puts Oni in perfect range for kara throws/block strings that lead into either tick throws or BnBs(push people into the corner or, do big stupid damage and then push people into the corner)…what you end your combos with depends on your relationship to the corner. from mid screen hk tatsu to either put them there or to keep them there for a meaty follow up, if they’re almost there and you’re not sure what they’ll do on wake up you can SRK their ass into the wall, leaving yourself at poking/hk slam range, or if they’re already in the corner you can finish with a slam for the UTK and maintain wake-up pressure. Oni is even scary when he himself is cornered, because with his normals and careful us of slams he is able to hold it down while he waits for an opportunity to pull a switch on his opponent by crossing up with his air tatsu, dash xx tatsu, or blockstring/poke xx slash.

the reason I emphasize the corner so much is because Oni is borderline OP when he has his opponent cornered.the corner is also where your mixup game becomes really strong, because you can fake a crossup with lp dash xx ex tatsu into either ultra, and the lk and hk crossups become extremely ambiguous. also, your hk slash becomes a real wakeup tool(which it generally isn’t) because of how difficult it is to read this move from the corner. also, the corner is where you can really feel the power of Oni’s block strings. at times they seem endless, lead to throws, blow up tech mashing with slams, and they can hit confirm into his BnBs. often times the opponent will either be too terrified to press a button, or so terrified that they press many buttons, or jump at you…either way you’re clear to usher in the calamity provided your opponent isn’t el fuerte’s cheap bastard ass.

which leads me to my final and least enjoyable point: getting knocked down with Oni. there’s really not much to say about it other than it fucking sucks really bad. his backdash is ass, dp is risky, and slam can be jabbed out of. you just have to block a lot and read tick throws until you feel your opponent being overly abusive of your easily abused utter lack of reversal game, at which point you may try a slam, which you are likely to be jabbed out of…but at least then your feet are on the ground again. DP should be a last resort when there’s not much to lose, lp is most difficult to punish on whiff(but you’re DPing so who cares), mp is good if you need to save meter or if you don’t have it to begin with. but if you’re going to take this awful risk, which you shouldn’t, the ex is the best because of its invincibility and UTK if it doesn’t fully connect. but it really is best to block.

overall I’d say Oni plays a lot like ST Fei. patient footsies, uncompromising anti-air, and emphasis on positional play until spontaneously igniting relentless pressure that leads into game ending bait punishes and mixups.