"I'm not Gouken..." Oni General Discussion Thread

oni

#1101

So I entered Defend the North this weekend and I played oni. I mirrored sanford in a couple matches and he kept catching me with c.short, c.jab walk forward then demon. I woke up the next morning and learned how to do it in about 3 minutes. My input for it is plink c.jab with c.short followed by the rest of the input for demon. If you do it right the when you get to forward + short the start up frames of oni’s forward short should force your opponent into the blocking animation and the demon should come out during those same frames. Its pretty cheap but fun to catch in match


#1102

Yo Sanford! Good Shit!


#1103

What is oni on block and hit after slash Fadc?


#1104

So now thanks to ultra we get counter hit mp into sweep.


#1105

dp


#1106

So am I the only one that feels EX slash’s startup should be reduced a bit? I don’t understand the point of the move. I see it as a waste of meter if I’m only using it to punish fireballs. As a mixup tool, people only fall for it at anything other than “high” level play or sometimes in those near K.O. close rounds. On top of that it’s at least -7 (I can’t remember how much really) on block so you get blown up hard if it’s blocked. Then there’s the fact that it’s an EX move so you can visually confirm that it’s gonna cross up. I mean is there something I’m missing here? Mind you as much as I have experience playing against Oni, I’ve only been playing as him since very late AE2012.


#1107

Usually i cross up with ex slash with either:
a) a noob who doesn’t know oni
b) use b+mp, Hp, then ex-slash. They have to TRULY be looking for it or be mashing dp/jab to get you. Most likely though if they know you dont drop your combos then they won’t expect it and you can for the reset.
But i agree, the startup needs to be reduced, along with many many many other changes that need to be done to Oni to make him more viable.


#1108

Oni getting fadc on the first hit blocked on his dp would still be super weak if it was safe on backdash since it universally unsafe on fwd dash and doesnt allow for a combo. Not stoked on usf4 oni.


#1109

Read the full article, combofiend admits that balance changes still need to be adjusted!!! Oni might just get the buffs he needs!


#1110

He won’t cause he has no fans. Very few play him, Seth got a lot of crying by his many fans so he will be made stronger (if they truly do a rebalance). The outrage over Sagat’s high tiger shot nerf has been loud, Oni has just been forgotten.

I suggest the few Oni players go to Capcom unity and be loud about the dumb balance job Capcom did, maybe then they might revert some of the nerfs at the very least.


#1111

eventhubs.com/news/2014/jul/23/wao-switches-evil-ryu-currently-osakas-10-strongest-player-topanga-banzuke-footage-also-ft-kog-mago-and-more/

Good for him, talent like his shouldn’t be wasted.


#1112

No but its ok though maybe Mnszyk will be the one to show us how to really play oni. huehuehuehue.


#1113

I give up. fuck it. Nerf Oni to the ground ill still play him.


#1114

Wao playing E.ryu on stream. Im actually a big fan of his E.ryu now. Hes not hyper aggressive like Pr.rogs E.ryu, but hes not super passive and overly defensive like Daigos.


#1115

I was really never a huge fan of Wao (with Oni). I just thought he was too defensive. I can watch OMH all day tho, to me he seems like he plays him with a somewhat controlled chaos mentality.


#1116

OMH makes much better use of Onis normals then Wao, it seems like he has the spacing and timing down for every normal to counterpoke/stuff in each matchup. If you want to learn how to counterpoke and use buttons effectively OMH is who you should watch. He really teaches you how to play without cross up slash and stomps. His problem is he will never make it out to a US or asian major, and online sometimes he gets super impatient and gives up(who doesnt its online, sometimes lag makes you go fuck this just do whatever).

Wao imo just has straight up better reads then OMH. He does benefit from playing in japan, their online environment is probably way better then europes and US, plus the level of players is much higher. He doesnt mind going to stomps and slashes(something I dont agree with but w/e) if the other guy cant punish. Wao really doesn’t have a problem with playing really really stupid if he knows you cant figure it out. But during his topanga run he played with so much balls and patience it was crazy. Who else can play the neutral game with oni against tokido and daigo and fuudo and come out on top??


#1117

HAH finally found an english version on waos blog explaining why hes picking up evil ryu over oni.

His blog post: http://wao.blog.eonet.jp/default/2014/07/4-864c.html
Much thanks and love to wao for sharing his thought, if this ever goes on his radar. (waoさん あざす!)

First update in a while. I was hoping to start this blog with: Since the digital console patch was announced, there have been rumors about new re-balancing of the whole roster in August. (to coincide with the physical release of USF4) Confirmation at EVO? I knew it! I believed in you, Combofiend!
Sadly, no details were given on that front.
But they did seem to have brought up Oni. As far as I can tell, they seem to believe that they buffed him in this version. (it hurts my head) It irks me that they’re overrating his Shoryu FADC. Unlike other characters, he can’t capitalize on it for big damage. To be frank, it saddens me because I had high hopes for Oni buffs. Thus begins my days of learning Evil Ryu and dropping combo…
So, Evil Ryu. I’m brainstorming efficient meter-usage for him.
EX Hadouken
Evil Ryu’s basic footsie tools are: cr.MK -> Hado, far st.MK, and Hado. However, they’re all weak to focus attack. In particular, there are characters against whom cr.MK -> heavy tatsu sequence whiffs after focus -> back dash. For matchups against them, you need to be careful and think twice about what you stick out. Then comes EX Hado. It comes out 1 frame and recovers 3 frames faster than regular Hado, super useful. If you ever feel stuck, this is a go-to move. I use this move as a basis for meter-management evaluation.
EX Shakunetsu
Evil Ryu’s Shaku (regular and EX both) doesn’t work as well as Akuma’s. Its decent use is pretty much meaty chip damage.
EX Shoryuken
I have yet to shake off my Oni habits, and I’m using Evil Ryu’s EX Shoryu the same way I did with Oni’s. It’s not working out so well. I want to say it’s a good and damaging follow-up to light Tatsu, but given that heavy Shoryu already does 160 damage and EX does 190, I have my doubts. The move’s long invincibility might justify chip damage when the opponent is in meter deficit. FADC will be discussed later.
EX Tatsumaki
If used at right times, it’s still a really strong move. It’s definitely worth going for. Forward MK is a better corner follow-up (both in damage and stun departments) than heavy Shoryu. Against some characters, you can even do EX Tatsu -> EX Tatsu -> medium Axe Kick. It’s practical, and looks awesome. You can start that sequence with medium Axe Kick -> cr.LP -> EX Tatsu against Abel, Rufus, and Dhalsim, point-blank. It probably works on more characters, but I never really looked into it. Is there chart for it somewhere?

EX Axe Kick
It’s a good move. You can even integrate it in a footsie game. When Evil Ryu has 2 bars, it’s an option after cr.MK (in addition to cr.MK -> Hado whose reward is off the charts) and functions as a countermeasure against focus attack trigger-happy. Even if it’s blocked, it’s only -4, so no real fear of big punish. If it’s whiffed, though, it leads to a big opening for a punish. But if you manage to land it, you score hard knock-down and can push the opponent to corner, so I’d say use it actively. It’s even better if you get your opponent close to dizzy. If you stun him/her with this move, you pretty much got that round.

Air EX Tatsumaki
You can dodge Poison’s anti-air U1 with it.
Raging Demon
It’s really strong, but you have to pick the right time to use it because it gives the opponent a lot of meter.
Cr.MK -> Hadouken or light Axe Kick
This is what Evil Ryu is all about. Unless you’re saving your meter for next round or down in life by a lot, always go for this combo. It’s crucial that you can reliably hit-confirm and FADC off cr.MK -> Hado.
Cr.MK -> EX Hadouken FADC
Always go for it whenever you have U2 stored up. Never save it for later.
Hadouken or Shakunetsu FADC
You can punish neutral-jumpers with U2. Once you get your opponents aware of this setup, it will be harder to rope them into neutral jumping to avoid your Hado again, so observe them and use it wisely. If they didn’t neutral jump, you just wasted meter.
EX Hadouken or EX Shakunetsu FADC
It’s tempting to go for it when you’re down in life and losing, but ideally it’s better to save meter. Do it when you and your opponent are both down to the last pixels. EX Shaku -> FADC forward -> U1 might be a true block-string? I’ll test it next time.
Shoryuken FADC
If you have Ultra stored up, you want to hold your focus attack (post-Shoryu) and hit-confirm. If hit, dash forward and Ultra. If blocked, let go of focus and/or back dash. If you have a lot of meter to spare, anti-air medium Shoryu -> FADC forward -> heavy Axe Kick or EX Shaku -> medium Axe Kick might be a good idea? 100 damage for 2 bars, roughly 200 more with 3 bars. It might be good when you have a life lead.
EX Shoryuken FADC
For some reason Evil Ryu’s EX Shoryu is +4 (focus cancelled on first hit), so you can follow it up with a terrifying cr.MP -> close st.HP -> medium Axe Kick combo. Against big characters like Zangief and T. Hawk, however, HP becomes far st.HP, so either replace cr.MP with cr.LP or close st.MP (then go straight to Axe Kick). This is the second best option for Evil Ryu to cr.MK -> Hado. I’ll use it whenever I get a chance.

Heavy Tatsumaki FADC
Unlike Oni, Evil Ryu’s Tatsu does not have armor-break property, so you’re looking to counter focus attack with cr.MK -> heavy Tatsu -> FADC. It’s +3 (and +5 assuming Tatsu hitting opponent’s focus attack counts as counter-hit?), so you can get creative and start a combo. Unless the Tatsu happens to hit the opponent airborne, it’s no waste of meter, so for the most part it’s beneficial to always option select Tatsu.
Forward MK -> Air EX Tatsumaki
You can follow it up with medium Axe Kick. A great counter for throw attempts. Observe your opponent’s defense patterns/habits and use it. Works well against crouch/stand techers.

Combo
In the past I didn’t really spend bars for combo because I was under an impression that Evil Ryu does good damage already without meter, but I was wrong. Don’t save meter. I calculated the damage and stun with varied meter usage. (using excel. there might be some margin of error) Close st.HP as a combo starter.
Damage:
0 bar - 373
2 bars - 448
4 bars - 468
By looking at the damage values alone, I questioned the use of meter. But if you look at the stun…
Stun:
0 bar - 575
2 bars - 770
4 bars - 880
It changes the whole story. If you can keep up with how much stun you’re dealing, you can efficiently go for a reset with throw, overhead, or anti-crouch tech, and score a dizzy. Then you can land a raw Ultra, which leaves you with little scaling and saved meter. Evil Ryu has 2 overheads and a variety of anti-crouch techs like EX Tatsu, far st.MK, and forward MK in his arsenal, so I should go for more stuns. The combo I used to measure the damage/stun above is light Axe Kick -> FADC forward -> cr.LP -> close st.HP (which nets the highest stun possible) which has 2 1-frame links. It’s difficult, but it’s effective, and above all it feels good to nail it, so I better practice.
One thing to keep in mind, however, is don’t start this combo off focus crumple. Focus attack yields so much scaling, so no matter how much meter you spend on the combo afterward, the damage and stun will be nowhere near as much as the values above. Only go for combo off crumple when it’s just enough to kill and win the round.

I’m glad I could jot down a lot more than I first thought. Even when I wrote about Oni, there were some ideas I never thought about until I actually started writing them down, so if I were to really stick with Evil Ryu, I should write more often.


#1118

I bolded the parts that I thought were ridiculous. I mean really…there its no wonder wao dropped oni for e.ryu. So much tools…so many options drools


#1119

Wait
Wait
Wait
Wait

What?


#1120

Pretty much. But just spend some time in the general forums or the tier list forums to get some perspective. Apparently its not ok to complain about your main if nobody else plays him, but as soon as decrappy and rolento get stealth nerfed everybody starts complaining and threatening to quit the game.