I'm ready to move on


#1

this thread is very long, only answer questions you feel like answering.

guys ive been into fighting games for years. i stopped playing games of any kind all together for many years also but after i saw ads for SF4 i kind of got interested as this was my childhood game. i went to a website called gametrailers and saw the daigo 3rd strike parry and decided i wanted to get back into sf via sf4.

ive played SF2, Alpha 2, MK 2 & Trilogy, Tekken 2 & Tag, Killer Insticnt, Soul Calibur. 3rd Strike, CVSnk1, Fatal Fury, MVC.

Games i never played; Guilty Gear, Darkstalkers, AH, Blazblue, Virtua Fighter etc…

now i was only a casual player and i decided to only get back into SF because i wouldnt have enough time to devote to becoming good in more than 1 title. so it was painful seeing MK9, T6 come out and not buy them. i do not remember hardly any mechanics about the games i listed as “I’ve played.” anyway, i love AE but sometimes im just not in the mood for it anymore so an alternative would be nice. i notice in this forum, when a lot of people make their point about the game of their choice, they always include some sort of insult towards SF4 and its players. This is why im reaching out to you guys. i dont know how to go about this thread so ill just ask numbered questions. you dont have to answer every question.

the release of KOFxiii, SC5 and UMVC3 has me excited. sadly i cant devote to all 3. im familiar with cvs and fatal fury, hence my username… but ive never tried a KOF game.

  1. out of those 3 (KOFxiii, SC5 and UMVC3,) which one do you get the most joy out of, and why?
  2. which is the least braindead game where you have to stay alert and not auto pilot?
  3. which will improve my reaction skills the most?
  4. execution wise, which has the toughest practical combos?

i am not opposed to different games.

  1. how do you rate blazblue?
  2. i heard its inferior to GG in everyway. is that true?
  3. i want to improve my execution but being a SF4 player people wont take me seriously if i say im an execution genius. will they take a blazblue player serious?
  4. how much easier is the exection in BB compared to GG?
  5. is it possible to purchase GG for 360? is the community still active?

i mention execution a lot. i guess im just sick of people saying i play an easy mode game;
11) i heard KOF is pretty difficult but are moves hard due to them being so long and hard to memorise or is the timing really strict to link all those specials together? what makes kof execution hard?
11a) KOF or GG which game has harder execution?

UMvC3 would be an obvious choice because it has a big community but;
12) are MvC2 players satisfied with UMVC3?
13) is it inferior to pt2 or is it innovative and a great game in its own right?

i know i talked a lot about execution but honestly, i really do like 3d fighters.
14) is any VF on the 360? which do you recommend?
15) why do some SC and VF players rubbish T6 as a poor game?
16) which of the 2 is more technical between SCV and T6?
17) is VF without a doubt superior to Tekken?
18) which out of the 3 3d games is a must? or which cant you do without?
19) i understand VF is the most technical, but which is the most strategic/tactical?
19a) both being 3d Namco games, does T6 play similar to SC5? or completely different?

ive decided i can get 2 games not 1. maybe one 2d and one 3d
18) any alternative games i could try that i didnt mention?
19) out of all the games i mentioned, which ONE is your favourite?

sorry if this thread turns out to be a hard to read mess. i didnt plan it out. i didnt even know how to go about asking these questions. i just went with the flow instead of making multiple threads. i didnt just want to ask opinions on which is the best, so i asked different types of questions to help me in deciding which 2 fighting games i want to devote casual / semi-serious time into like ive done with SF4 for the past 2 years.

i know i have a long road ahead. i havent touched any fighting games for yearssss other than sf4

this thread is very long, only answer questions you feel like answering.

thanks all!


#2

If you want mindless execution as the primary goal SF4 sounds like a good game for you TBH.


#3

If sf4 is all youve played for years… its too late. Youve already built irreversebal execution habits that are awful. Not to mention the mind games are lacking.


#4

Yes, and I say this as a BB fan.


#5

VF5FS and KOF13 are what you want. Buy those and never look back.


#6

14) is any VF on the 360? which do you recommend?

Yes vanilla VF5 version C is on the XBOX 360 with netplay. There is also a version on the PS3, but this is vanilla VF5 version B. To explain, VF5 came out and there were different revision (I think it may have went to version D).

In Japanese arcades there was also VF5 Revolution (VF5R for short) which also had 3 or 4 revisions, and using alphabets (A,B,C,D).

Currently out now is VF5 Final Showdown. I believe the most current version is it’s second revision (Version B).

Generally new gameplay mechanics are added to each new game in the VF5 series, like the removal of 0 frame neutral throws. Bound properties have also been changed in different revisions. I believe this summer VF5 Final Showdown (not sure of the revision) will be availble on XBOX Live Marketplace, and the PSN store.

15) why do some SC and VF players rubbish T6 as a poor game?

I did not know anyone felt this way. Generally 3D players respect each other’s game, though one may be a fan of another. Typically ignorant VF fan boys may bash Tekken, but usually not on a good basis.

In T6 some changes were made, like the crush system, and rage mode. There was also some nerfs to movements like Backdash canceling and such. And hope kicks because kind of a new friendly tool. Overall though, Tekken 6 is a solid game. Keep in mind in consoles the game is called Tekken 6, but the version on consoles we’re playing is Tekken 6 Bloodline Rebellion or Tekken 6 BR. In the console version, it went for a generic Tekken 6 label.

Tekken 6 BR actually changed the rage meter so that less life is needed for range (I believe 10% activates rage mode). In Tekken 6, I believe that you only needed 25% life to activate rage mode. Rage mode may be the biggest issue with T6, since it plays out more like a comeback mechanic. The damage because insane.

Also Juggles do insane damage in Tekken and coupled with rage mode, some really BS comebacks can happen. I would guess in VF5 (which also has insanely high damaging juggle) juggles aren’t as common, and in Soul Calibur traditionally juggles don’t really lead to big damage. Though in SCV, some combos do really big damage. However I think juggles stick out in Tekken more, so it’s more criticized.****

16) which of the 2 is more technical between SCV and T6?

They’re about the same, though Soul Calibur V is easier to pick up than T6. In Soul Calibur it’s a lot easier to move around, and movement is more straight forward. Also it’s less centered around long and complex juggle, and more poking. Again, there are combos in Soul Calibur and they do really big damage. Both games are really technical at high levels, so it’s hard to say which one is more technical. I would say Soul Calibur is more forgiving than Tekken, because if you can defend yourself in Tekken, you’re likely to end up dead in 1 combo and a mixup. In Soul Calibur getting launched or hit generally doesn’t mean you’re going to die.

17) is VF without a doubt superior to Tekken?

Not worth answering, people prefer different things. Tekken and VF has as much in common as KOF and SF. Anyway, Tekken may seem more “stiff” when you’re first starting out, since it does take awhile to learn how to move. Likewise VF may also seem stiff. Both games are VERY technical, and have a lot of depth. Tekken has more depth in oki situations, VF has more depth in neutral situations. Both take some time to learn. I would try them both and see which one you fancy more. Tekken probably better to get into since there is more a scene and a bigger playerbase outside of Japan. For VF, the non Japanese playerbase is really scattered, and finding competition may be hard. Not sure how this will be once VF5FS comes to console.****

18) which out of the 3 3d games is a must? or which cant you do without?

For a beginner starting out, I would recommend SCV. It has EX moves (called Brave Edged moves), has super meters, and even has supers. But there are still 3D mechanics at it’s core, with 2D elements. You may be more at home here. The combos are also easy to learn as well. This doesn’t mean you can start beasting pros, but the game does hold your hand a lot so it’s easier to get into it without getting discoruaged. Plus the netcode is superb, and it has an awesome training mode.

Tekken 6 is harder to learn, some juggles can be quite complicated, it takes longer to learn how to move, it has a bigger roster (meaning more matchups), it’s training mode is subpar, and it has horrible netcode. I wouldn’t recommend T6 unless you already have a very good offline scene. Tekken 6 is a good game, but you can probably pass on it, since TTT2 is coming out later this year. T6 is pretty much outdated at this point, though I personally think it’s better than SCV.

As far as VF5FS, the verdict is not out on it yet.

** 19) i understand VF is the most technical, but which is the most strategic/tactical?**

All 3D games are very technical, strategic, and tactical. The main strategy are in the mind games, such as hitting your opponent with certain mixups, using your movment like stepping, side steping, and evades and perhaps forcing them to throw something punishable out. All 3 games take a REALLY long time to learn, since you really need to know what’s safe and not safe, what you can punish with. And they also have different character types. Some characters have a lot of safe pressure, but are prone to whiff punishment. Some characters don’t have safe moves, but serve as more punishment characters. Some are good at frame traping. Some have better oki mixups. Character in 3D games have strengths and weaknesses. Like some characters have really long range pokes, but are really vulnerable to lows, some characters have great while rising punisment, but in this they are susceptable to mids. There are a lot of metagames in 3D.****

19a) both being 3d Namco games, does T6 play similar to SC5? or completely different?

Completely different. Very few if any similarities between the two.


#7

(don’t really think this thread belongs here, but anyway)

KOFXIII is the most fun for me because I like offensive games and it just feels good to play, but I can only play it offline which is once a week if I’m lucky. I don’t like UMvC3 but I’ll play it casually at sessions. SCV is fun and the netplay is really good.

You have to stay alert in all these games. SCV and most Namco 3D games rely a lot on having very good reactions so you have to stay focused. UMvC3 is more auto-pilot but that’s only once you land a hit or are running a canned setup.

A 3D game like Tekken or SC will force you to have godlike reactions. For example, breaking throws is largely about reactions in 3D games, and not only do you have to react, you have to visually confirm (in Tekken) which throw you have to break. Experience will help here. This doesn’t necessarily mean it will help you in other games though. Pressing a button to break a throw is somewhat different to seeing a jump in, choosing the appropriate AA, and then executing.

It depends on what you mean by “practical”. When SFIV was release people thought 1f links weren’t practical. You’d probably struggle the most with KOF if you’ve never played it before because it has a different input and buffering system to most Capcom fighters. SC is 3D, so you might struggle with the movement if you haven’t played it in a while. Just Frame moves require a lot of practice. UMvC3 has some technical stuff but in general the execution is very easy.

Blazblue is OK but I prefer GG because it feels faster paced. I don’t play either game at a level where my opinion should count though lol.

The older KOFs have difficult execution. KOFXIII is pretty tame compared to them. Linking in KOF isn’t that hard once you get used to the input system. The harder part is executing the motions accurately and quickly enough.

You don’t need to play GG or BB to improve your execution. Just practice to execute well in the game you actually enjoy playing. SFIV doesn’t affect your execution as badly as you think it does. Well, I say that but I actually played other games for years before SFIV so maybe I’m mistaken.

Some people like MvC3, some people hate it. A minority are indifferent. The good thing about the game is that it’s easy to find people to play with.

VF5 is on the 360 and is fun. Some people like some things that other people don’t. No real mystery. Just play what you like.

SC plays like SC. Tekken plays like Tekken. None of these games you mentioned are must buys. If you can’t decide, go for the game with the biggest community. That said, SCV works well online so if you can’t get offline games go with that. I don’t think you should get T6 though. It’s a good game but TTT2 is around the corner. The latest version of VF5 is also supposedly coming out soon. The surface of SCV hasn’t even been scratched yet so it’s hard to compare to older titles in different series.

My personal recommendations are SCV and KOFXIII. The benefits are that KOFXIII is a good game, and you can develop with the community in SCV.


#8

I don’t agree with this at all. You don’t need godlike reactions in 3D games, just familiarity with situations. Most of the moves are actually pretty seeable. The fastest move in 3D games is like 10 frames (and that’s ultra fast), throws in 3D games have 8 to 10 frames of startup. You can “see” mostly everything in 3D.

In 2D faster reactions are required because more stuff is actually “unseeable”. In 2D games, a slow throw something like 3 to 5 frames startup, with 7 and 8 frame tech windows. Some throws aren’t breakable meaning you have to guess a lot more in 2D. For example, you actually can’t see Zangief’s 2 frame command throw in time to jump it or reversal it on reaction. You have to essentially “guess”.

I come from a really really huge 3D scene with some of the best SC and T6 players in the country. Almost every low gets blocked and every throw gets broken on reaction.

I would say there is less autopilot in 3D though, you have to be alert. But the same could be said for 2D at higher levels.


#9

I would add that 3D games are WAY more frame intensive than 2D games. Any serious player is generally going to have all of their character’s frame data memorized, and the frame data of a few characters they often fight against. It’s is absolutely imperative that you know your frame data in 3D, because it’s not only important to know what can be punished but what it can be punished with. You don’t always get a launcher for a punish. I think punishment in 2D is more uniform, since most characters have common punishes. But in 3D you have to always know what you can be punished with.


#10

Yeah, like I said experience will help. But if you’re not used to reacting to throws you’re not gonna be breaking them in Tekken for a very long time.

People don’t react to throw startups in 2D games. You react to the situation, which is easier to spot. Or you just do stuff pre-emptively. I mean people have gone to the extent of making trainers to help learn how to break Tekken throws. There’s no point in doing something like that for 2D games because you don’t react to them.


#11

thanks guys ive been reading your comments and i appreciate all the constructive posts. im hoping to get some marvel and BlazBlue player’s views as i really do consider them. at this point -thanks to your responses- i think im leaning towards KOF xiii and SCV, then will decide between the new VF and Tekken Tag somewhere down the line if these 2 cant occupy me enough. tbh i think i will have my hands full. getting a 3rd would really hinder my progression in getting better. SFxT is out of the question!


#12

If you don’t mind me asking, why is SFxT out of the question? Despite all of the unwarranted complaints about the game, I think it will be quite fundamentally sound.


#13

I wouldn’t say BB is inferior to GG.

What I would say, is it is an entirely different game, that you shouldn’t look at as a GG sequel. The stigma that it’s a step back from GG (while it’s more like a step to left or to the right) comes from the fact that people were expecting a GG sequel. I, personally, am not that fond of the game, but, you should try it for yourself.


#14

KoFXIII


#15

i do like the looks of the game. my comment comes from watching the daigo vs tokido footage where daigo was constantly throwing on wake up. also the usual jab jab link into another normal or into throw. for me it just resembled sf4 too much. i love sf4 but it being my only fighter for 2 years i want something totally different. sometimes im having good matches but feel bored at the same time. its hard to explain. i just need a complete opposite so when im bored i can play something else that wouldnt keep me in that bored state. i will still play and enjoy it but at this point i would rather just buy a tekken game for the Tekken side than buy SFxT. i really miss the days when at 1 point Tekken 2 was my main fighter. i may be way off about SFxT, and it would be better to wait and judge after i play it, but with it being a month away i just want to go ahead and buy these 2 games now


#16

play 3s FOR REAL.


#17

One thing to remember is that noone really knows how to play SFxT yet because it’s a new game. Don’t take the Daigo vs Tokido, or any other match for that matter as an instructional vid about the game. In all probability Daigo threw Tokido so much because he knew Tokido wouldn’t expect it because of all his matchup experience against him. Or because the maybe the throw tech window is diffferent. Or because maybe the the throw range is different. The game seems similar to SFIV because for the first month or so people will play it like SFIV until they start to figure it out and the metagame begins to develop.


#18

3s


#19

very true. i shouldnt have judged the whole game because of that 1 footage:( . i am very interested in seeing how the game turns out a few months to a year or so