I'm sick of hearing how eSports are gonna save the FGC!

This is long, so here’s the tldr version for you guys with short attention spans:

  1. the FGC kicked the shit out of MLG and “e-sports” but you guys did not notice. This is very important, but MLG and their shills are trying hard to sweep under the rug and make you not realize the FGCs own strength.

  2. No league will make you “mainstream” or save you. They have not saved anything so far, and actually have a good track record of wrecking game communities way bigger than Street Fighter. Check the history. The good news is that you do not need to be saved.

Ok, more on each point now.

  1. This summer an important milestone in the world of competitive gaming has passed, and people did not even notice. The FGC is already larger than leagues like MLG. Check the numbers.

EVO completely crushed MLG. Remember when MLG was so happy with 450,000 unique users in Columbus that they issued a press release about it danced around about the “eSports is going mainstream!” comments. EVO destroyed that “record-breaking” performance by 500% and did so at the same time MLG Anaheim was on. Think about that for a second.

MLG: dozens or maybe hundreds of employees, tens of millions of investor money and they the biggest and most populer competion games in the world (SC2, CoD, etc.). EVO: hired “the kings of poverty” and IPW to run the stream, maybe doesn’t even have full time employees (?), and only played fighting games, with the help of lots of people from FGC for the show.

So how did MLG do? They got loud about the “35 million!” number, but that was 35 million “stream activiations”. Nobody knows what hell that is, and MLG loves that vagueness. Its a number that sounds big, but in reality is a totally made up stat. So according to MLG, MLG is a big deal! Lol.

So since “stream activiation” is a make believe number that no other source uses and nobody even knows WTF it means let’s talk real numbers. The real stat that all real streamers and websites understand is UNIQUE VIEWERS. That’s real people. That’s a real statistic that you can not fluff up with fake terms. EVO had more than 2 million uniques. MLG Columbus had 22.5 million “stream activation” and later said that equals 450,000 unique visitors. They now have 35 mil “stream activations” and they’re saying around 1 million unique for Anaheim. Even if the two events are added together MLG are still smaller than EVO all by itself. So the people who will show sad little fighting games how the bigtime esports playas roll? Yeah, they got blown away by the same people they say need their help so bad. If you add in some of the other big events in the FGC to equal the six “Pro Circuit” events, the FGC completely destroys MLG numbers. But remember, this group is already smaller than FGC (but is trying so hard to hide it) is going to save the FGC and teach it how they do it in the bigtime esports!

So how come nobody is talking about it? When he got asked on Twitter about # of unique viewers, the CEO of MLG avoided saying “the technicians are still trying to figure that out.” Are you kidding me? There business is to sell live streams, but staff can not figure out how many unique users they had? 100% bullshit, and he knows it, but because their bigtime CEO corporation superleague got slapped by the regular guys in the FGC, and there is lots of evidence for anybody that looks. For a guy that runs his mouth nonstop he has curiously never talked about this issue, but I guess he has investors to lie to and trick with hot talk about his 29 katrillion stream activity quadrant sectors so yeah.

But what about “independent” shows like LiveOnThree? The self proclaimed “Real Talk” in eSports? Hmmm, they somehow seem to have overlooked that 800 pound gorilla in the room too. How could a program devoted to the real competitive games somehow overlook mentioning that EVO and the FGC had the biggest competitive gaming event in history (by far)? How did they miss that EVO did not just beat MLG it totally annihilated it in terms of real humans watching? Maybe it’s obvious why the CEO of MLG does not want to talk about it, but how does LiveOn3 miss landmark event? Gee, it’s almost like everyone on that show might be eating the $$ scraps off of MLGs table, and make more money when MLG succeeds. Funny how that influences their “real talk” and how everyone that seems to have great things to say about MLG stands to benefit directly from their success! If you want to be a shill for MLG fine, but dont be have “no BS” in youre logo and try to ignore tyhat. thing that tends to influence their “Real Talk” and how everyone has things to say about MLG seems to be directly benefitting from them? Here is a topic for you: biased shills pretending to be objective. But remember FGC, these guys are your friends! They are going to save you, and show your tiny offshoot community how the big boys in eSports do it! You need them!

Real talk for the MLGs out there. I’ve heard talk about all their “we’re professionals!” “We’re bigtime!” “We know all about esports” but look at the reality behind it. You and your outdated model of “esports” are the ones who need saving. Even playing games that have way more sales and players, you get less viewers BECAUSE YOUR EVENTS ARE THE OPPOSITE OF HYPE. The viewers you do get (mostly SC2) are for a community that you did not build, you just tried to camp on it (after ignoring the game at first, but now you are forced to be friends since you killed your other games). Your events are opposite of hype. You are dinosaurs. FGC is what is in. FGC is a true diversity of peoples. FGC has personality. The funny part is that MLG knows all this and are desperate to do vamp off FGC as soon as possible. All they need to trick you, flip the script and stop you from noticing that instead of needing their help, FGC is leading the way.

  1. The league will not save you.

“We must be saved by the league that will make us mainstream! They will pay (some of) us money! They will give us jobs!”

Many people have problems with the way MLG does business, but certain top players and personalities that stand to benefit personally sometimes support them because they think it will get them a job or give them $$ and e-fame when our new eSports overlords take power. Also somehow them getting imaginary money will also be good for everyone else! MLG likes to make promises to everybody about how if you get the FGC to support us, we will make you (yes, you!) into a rich and famous pro gaming star. No matter they made the same promise to the way more people than they have jobs for, and say the same thing to all the girls every time they add a new genre, but will the leagues really help achieve the fabled “mainstream appeal”?

Let’s look at their track record. MLG is currently staying alive on the back of SC2 (another scene they did not build, but are trying to ride), but Halo was the main game for years, supported by huge game sales and millions of regular players online. It was so much of their business they were often called “the Halo league.” So with all that going for them, did MLG did “save” Halo? Did they make it mainstream? Do you hear a lot about Halo posterboys they gave all those flashy deals? Yeah, me neither. In fact, MLG is talking about dropping Halo entirely. The game that put them on the map and was their main focus for years is getting turned out like a cheap whore. Thanks for playing!

MLG’s CEO will tell you this is Bungie’s fault and they ruined the game, but what it really shows is that MLG doesn’t build a scene, just borrow someone elses scene for as long as they can make money from it. When the publisher support runs out (Tekken), or the numbers dip a bit (Smash), MLG drops the game leaving the community to fend for itself again, sometimes destroying it in the process. They are the Bang Bus of gaming.

When you hear someone say “oh they are good, they are trying to help!” check your wallets when they tell you, because its usually someone who makes money out of them or someone that has been promised a new job in exchange for support when our eSports overlords come and show the helpless FGC (already bigger than MLG and growing) how to do it.

MLG is a company with 10s of mils in investment $, however their prize pools are still slightly larger than the FGC posts now from player contributions. If you think about those prizes as a percent of its resources, the prizes are an insult, but they know they can get monkeys to jump and scream a few extra grand, so why bother offering rewards equal to their actual resources? They dont have to, and as long as you offer just a little more than what the kids have themselves, they know stupid kids will welcome them as a heros. What is more important, and important for investors in MLG is to realize is this: the MLG model has failed. Even with 10s of millions in investment, tons of employees and paid workers, and years with dominant control of some of the biggest games around (Halo, CoD, Gears), they did not produce the numbers that Evo staff sp00ky, and FGC posted by themselves in their spare time.

Its hard to look like a bigtime CEO when a random group of guys and spooky kick the crap out of your “bigtime,” “mainstream” business right? So quick, the new plan is to trick the FGC into thinking they need you before they realize that the opposite is true - that its MLG that needs to suck the blood from the FGC to stay alive, the same way they did with Halo, Smash, Gears, etc.

So no, they will not save you. The more one thinks about the idea of ​​"maybe MLG will save the FGC and make it mainstream!" you realize how far from reality the whole idea is. The FGC needs help like that like it needs a bullet in the head. FGC is saving itself, doing it with hype, and has posted the best numbers of anyone in “eSports” in history.

As long as our “leading” games are dictated by the casuals around us rather than the quality of the games, there’s nothing to be proud of.
Newsflash: The FGC is already suffering from the degenerating effects of being mainstream.
We used to make fun of Smash, but now we play our own versions of Smash.

I think the FGC needs to be saved from itself.

This is why Skullgirls needs to be at EVO.

And I should value your opinion in this because . . . . ?
If long term players like Alex Valle and John Choi can see the value in SFIV, then I see very little reason to trust the opinon of what is and what is not a good competative game from someone who makes funny internet videos.

And we should value their opinions why?

They could be just another couple of people who don’t enjoy the game, but feel like they have to play it because that’s where the competition is.

Except they’ve both publically said they liked the game. Alex even listed it on his favorites. Far as I’ve seen, neither players have any tendency to mask their feelings about games. John has spoken out about both vanilla MvC3 and MK(9) and the problems he sees with the games.
And I’d much rather trust the opinion of a competative player than a poster on SRK, especially those with the ability to articulate themselves clearly like Choi, Mike Z (not to be included in the SFIV example), and Alex (as opposed to Marn and Wong).
We have a lot of experts in the magic of inate objectivity here on SRK, many of whom you never here about off the site.


Of course this wouldn’t be an SRK thread w/o at least one informal fallacy.
What does making internet videos have to do with what I have said?

Also what makes you assume people like Valle and Choi see value in “SF4” by itself? Maybe what motivates them is “supporting and promoting the scene regardless of the game the masses have chosen”? I think it’s pretty clear considering that Valle is not only a player but also an event organizer now, and he plays every game that is featured in his events.

Also some top players openly say what they think about this game and that game. Why are you conveniently ignoring them?

The internet video comment is because that’s litterally all you could even be called notable for, yet you constantly assert the notion that SFIV is objectively bad and that anyone who thinks otherwise is either

  1. lieing for hidden motives
  2. an idiot

You exert extreme pretentiousness and self-arrogance without having anything to justify yourself. Not only do you assert yourself as all knowledgeable, but you assert objectivity where there is, in reality, none.

I’m not ignoring other players opinions at all, nor am I claiming them wrong, or like you, saying that their public opinions are actually falsehoods made for ulterior motives.

No, I respect all opinions about the game, as opposed to your smug ass.

Wow. Thread hijacked. Thx.

Well on your topic, I’ve never heard anyone say what you’re refering too, and I losely follow League of Legends. In fact the most I’ve heard is an acknowledgement from the “e-sports” side of things, admitting that fighting games are a contending scene with their own games now, a long with a minor interest in the two somehow joining forces.

TBH is seems like you’re just attacking MLG. Maybe you have a good reason to or maybe you don’t but it’s silly to think MLG = Esports.

Don’t mistake this as me putting anyone on blast. I could be right and I could be wrong, but there can be a scenario where some people are doing what they see as making sacrifices for the greater good, and in that position speaking openly about whatever bothers them personally would be like shooting their own feet.
If anything I’m paying those people respect by openly saying what they may or may not be thinking, but at least someone is being vocal about it.

So far you are the one who keeps focusing on the “who said” rather than “what is being said”. And it’s not like people haven’t talked about each and every game’s problems, but it’s easier to go with the flow so things never change for the better in the long run.

Let’s take an easier example-
People hate bad online, but still support the games with crap online and not games with good online= We will be playing crap online even 20 years from now.

Replace “good online” with “good game” and that’s basically what I feel is happening.

Like OP said a bunched of people tuned in to watch SF4 at evo so I’m gonna guess a lot of people like it. I think we can move one now.

I had a counter rant prepared for Tataki, but instead I’ll just edit his first post for lulz cause this thread is stupid.

As long as our “leading” games are hard as fuck and about as accessible a grizzly bear’s butthole in the winter time, there’s nothing to be proud of.

I have a hunch that not many of them have played older games.

SF4 went about it the wrong way though. Most of the things they’ve done to bring in the masses have ended up being completely useless to the cause and have negatively affected the game (input shortcuts for instance)

Skull Girls is a perfect example of how to make a game accessible, but not in a way that is detrimental to overall enjoyment of the game. They didn’t bog down the game with a clunky, imprecise input reader, but instead went about it in a roundabout and much more polished way.

Ok, so?

What I’m saying is that other games need more exposure.

There are plenty of SF4 players/spectators that haven’t given other games a chance yet.

I think SF4 can expose new comers to older games. I have friends who started competitive gaming with SF4 and BB and now branched into other games like CVS2 and VS.