IM thoughts on his tier rating

iron-man

#1

i dont see why IM isnt considered a top tier character. i think he’s a beast… too many ways to set up an inf (w/ or w/o assists). good inf setups usually lead to death. lots of guardbreaks. excellent zoning with specials and normals, excellent mobility (8-way airdash and flight). can chip (unibeams+bombs+assists) - i have chipped half life of characters in actual battles (cables included). decent assists and instant DHC to proton cannon (takes a pretty good chunk out). this guy is deadly in the air, on ground, and behind the ropes.

the only arguments that seems to comeup is his speed and lag on some attacks. but i think the speed and range of his normals make up for that. as for the lag, uhmm play smart .:stuck_out_tongue:

i use a team of IM pro/sent ground/cyc aaa. any thoughts, tips, questions, or intelligent criticism? feel free to post…hopefully we can have a better understanding on how much potential he can have to be called a ‘top tier’ character.


#2

i’d say he is a dark horse…sort of like a slower yet much more deadly magneto.

Ironman doesn’t do that well against top tier, but then again hardly any other characters do. Sentinel is a GREAT BIG problem for ironman. That is a long story though, I will say this though, one hit could mean death for a whole team. That point alone makes IM worth learning IMO, and makes him a force to be reckoned.

I play team combofiend in the order of mag/sent/im. that way, when I choose my team, I have many options I can take. If I play an msp (or a magneto based team), I can go sent first if I wish. If I am playing a cable based team, I might switch im and sentinel, so that I can have the frame kill. Also, if sent gets caught in the fuckin AHVB, I can frame kill to save him. There are many pros to having IM on your team. A very big plus, one of the main reasons I use combofiend, is for the sole purpose of having ironman be my last character.

Having ironman as your last character means you haven’t lost the game, IM can make comebacks that you never thought he could. Also, you have a last character that can tri-jump, that just floats my boat. I love being left with capcom vs tri-jumpin IM. one tri-jump lk, and it is over.

I haven’t really tried im/sent/cyke…but just for pointers…when you start IM out first…it could be wise to consider a cable based team. When you land his infinite, you just about max out you and your opponents super meter…so I mean, fuck it, why not have cable next since he is a meter hog and his assist works well with IM. just a thought though. a team you might wanna think about tryin is im/cable/sent. same concept as team row, except you got a less affective rushdown in a trade off with better sent-stomp protection from IM-beta.


#3

hey i’d like to hear your analysis of the IM vs Sent battle, i’d think its worth the read considering he’s part of the big 4.

in my opinion and from experience, IM can zone sent pretty damn well. i personally like to stay above him the majority of the match. sents slow on the ground and his size is HUGE, if you can consistently raindown SBs from the air (plus assists) its hard for him to escape and easier for you to control the pace of battle.

(id like to get more in depth on this matchup but my time is running low right now, ill post tom.)

as for my team… IM/sent ground: provides excellent zoning (rivals doom aaa), a variety of chipping patterns, preferred assist when distanced from opponent

IM/cyc aaa: arguably the best AAA in the game, cyc fills the gap IM’s speed cant get through (with invincibility included), setups inf more practical then IM/psy, ive also created a setup that allows IM to inf from anywhere on the screen (including the very top, great against storms and sents)

sent/IM pro: it’s fast (startup and lag) making it a pretty good gap cleaner for sents zoning, it chips, i like it better then his AAA. sent with a beam assist/erm disrupter :stuck_out_tongue: is good for zoning. i usually spend a lot of time chipping with that and HSFs thanks to IMs easy meter building.

sent/cyc AAA: check sent threads…

cyc/im pro: read sent/IM…added power damage from IMs DHC (cycs B&B combo)

cyc/sent ground: check cyc threads…they work well together

extras: cyc is an excellent last character and he’s great with meter (as well as building it). both IM and sent can build it enough to make cyc a final threat if IM/sent fail.

when overwhelmed, try alpha counter-cyc(AAA) dhc to next point character. you’ll tag safe to a more formidable character, w/ extra damage

as for the im/cable/sent…pretty good team (and IM does really build great meter for cable), but like you said, “you got a less affective rushdown.” with my team, i feel that i still can effectively rushdown, zone, and defend with IM on POINT. all i have to do now, is wait or force the opportunity to inf.


#4

Your team sounds sound…I am just not an Ironman/cyke advocate…and haven’t really experimented them too much. So I don’t really have much to say but, if you got all your bases covered…then keep using ironman!

My analysis of sent vs ironman is based more on a sent/capcom vs im/assist point of view. Sent/cap is becoming the thing to do nationwide…and suffice to say, we got a couple good team scrubs in the south…just nobody has heard of them yet, but don’t worry, Atlantic South is gettin on the map slowly but surely.

Sent/cap vs Im/assist is really hard and dangerous. IM from my experience can’t fly around and zone with smart bombs too much at all. two wavedashes plus capcom puts that shit to a halt; even though you could just sj and see if they call out capcom, if they do, block, pushblock, close smartbombs, drop, wavedash, rushdown. that strat would only really be useful if i had doom-b. rushing sentinel isn’t the best idea in my opinion.

The approach I take is not to kill sentinel…but to kill capcom. Everytime he calls capcom, I punish him in someway, whether it is counter calling assists (90% of the time that is what it is), or whether if is s.rh, sj (so i can block), then another sj.rh if sent doesn’t follow me up or prevent me from going up. then when you get sent not wanting to call his assist out is when you can do your damage. you get to throw out your normals that lead to random infinites. throw smart bombs and tk’ed unibeam safely. that is just the approach I take. one on one i’d say IM can handle anybody except the queen of rushdown…storm has too many good GROUND normals for her to have to put herself in a situation to get in the infinite.


#5

Sent/Capcom or Cable/Capcom is probably the hardest thing to come in on as an IM player, there’s just no way to fight it safely. I’ve been on both sides of the fence, and suffice it say, fighting IM with Sentinel is fairly basic. Generally keep away from IM before he superjumps, once he does, you attack (hell, I can do this without capcom, it’s just easier with him). The thing is, you’re better off just switching to cable (if he’s on your team) when your opp. starts pulling out Sentinel.

IM’s AAA is totally abusive and works great in Sent vs Sent fights. Just plant him down after your opponent calls his assist then wait to see if the assist hits. If it does, just HSF on reaction and you’ll take off a clean 50 percent I think after you air combo.

When you’re fighting Sent, there’s not that much that you can do other than random smart bombs and airdashed up unibeams. One other thing, when you’re coming down, just start hitting the lk, and if it hits, do up + fp, and then try doing the infinite.

You can try to catch Sent off guard if he’s flying by dashing under, superjumping up + fp and then starting the fly/unfly infinite. Trying to go head to with Sentinel in the air is suicide IMO. This is also the best way to hit a Storm if she fucks up her LA XX LS combo.

Only other option is to get in close, superjump, airdash forward and start the infinite, but it’s risky and not recomended unless you think your opp. sucks :lol:

I like Storm/Sent/IM personally (Sent/Cable/IM if I’m desperate), lots of assist abuse possibilities, and they both complement IM fairly well. IM’s assist is probably the best one to use for fastfly combos other than Mag’s as well.


#6

I keep hearing this…could somebody post the main fast fly with IM-b?


#7

one i do is launch, short, fast fly uf+short+ironman, fierceXXunfly(opponent lands into ironman) land and do whatever. the trick to get this combo consistantly is you have to fast fly towards your opponent. fast flying straight up or back doesnt yield consistant results :mad: im owns


#8

back, yea rushing down a sent/cap duo is NO easy task for anyone in the game. i tend to play a keepaway/chip game against sent and just wait for him to make mistakes. here is a couple thoughts i have in mind when i play IM against sent (w/ the team i use)…

smart calling assists and staying above sent is my first priority. i try to zone him out with SBs to start an offensive/keep control of the match.

if sent likes to wavedash/call cap, i have my cyc ready. u can either counter-call caps assist, beat it out with cycs, or call cyc before the WD. if cyc hits…game over for sent. if blocked, i sj and throw out SB. cyc will put him long enough in blockstun to get the SB out. from there on drop on sent and attack from above with normals/unibeams/or any mindgame you got planned. if you have SBs coming down after his AAA is called, sent cant do much to stop you. plus you keep cyc safe and ready to be called out again.

same thing goes if sent is in the air…again i always have my cyc ready. sent cant really attack IM safely when close because of cyc. and he really cant give out damage far away in the air.

if he backs up. call out sent (ground), SJ, and SB(then start an offensive). capcom AAA wont be able to punish IM’s SB since he’s distanced.


#9

Im talkin about when your zoning with smart bombs, sent can wavedash capcom you…and call cyke before the wavedash? against sent/cap? can u say launch into capcom? (unless im misunderstanding)

also, the hardest thing to deal with is the constant spit fly+assist for me…if sent distances himself with the frying pan, IM can’t start the infinite from a sj.lk, sj.up+fp when landing because the lk won’t beat the fryin pan from a distance. this is just my opinion though; but i think this is by far the toughest match for IM. cable/capcom doesn’t give me near the trouble sentinel/capcom does.


#10

IMs SB will cover cyc. if that fails, u can always use IM to punish any attempts of sent hitting cyc.

IM has a lot more options to drop on sent then just a simple lk, up HP. he has down hp, ad d, lk,lk, up HP (starts up inf). knee dive (lots of priority). neutral hk (if he’s right under u). drop w/out attacking then throw into sent ground (also sets up an inf).

against sents laser…i use these options—call out my sent drones, SJ, SB and go from there. u can also try using IMs standing HP to cancel then enemy sent’s laser (while calling an assist). if he tries to rocket punch or HSF, a timed proton cannon will cut through.

hmm…i really dont know why sents frying pan is giving you trouble. from my experience, any HP IM has (when aimed right) will beat out his frying pan and stomps. also, its a lot easier dropping on sent when SBs and/or your assist is on the screen.


#11

i guess i don’t have problems with the frying pan that much. iono; it just seems like you have to be SOOOO careful against sentinel. its like…i guess patience in the hardest thing for me. because there really isn’t much tri-jumpin sent unless you go with a nuetral rh, and it is too slow to connect. The sent/cap fight is what made me switch to team combofiend, I like magneto’s chances against sentinel more than IM.

I mean, I don’t get slaughtered so I guess I shouldn’t say it is hard for me. But I still have problems. It juss seems as if a smart sent+well placed capcoms can fuck up alotta IM’s game. Maybe it is cause I don’t use cyke. Because a lot of the strats u have given have cyke as a major part of the strat. WHICH IS GOOD. I just never really have played im/cyke before. I’ve always used other duos…more im/tron and im/psy.

So far I’ve played raekwon187’s sentinel…and I mean he has a good sent/cap, and he made it pretty difficult for my IM, but I mean, he didn’t slaughter him, but IM definately had to leave before his sentinel. I guess I just think it is wise to run storm, mag, or even sent vs sent before im vs sent.


#12

yea i try to play a patient IM against sent, chipping w/ SB+unibeams+sent ground will give you very nice chipping (im guessing as much as a HSF). i wouldnt try tri-jumping against sent/cap, unless cap is called out already. otherwise, wait for mistakes or combo after normals.

i USED to use IM/psy, but i came up with a lot better results w/ IM/cyc. IM doesnt have the SPEED of mag so most times i couldnt drop psy when/where i wanted to. and even if it did hit, sometimes IM would be too far away to combo after the hit.

with cyc, its a whole new different story…IM may not have the speed but he’s got many RANGED tools, to follow up cyc. cyc also got reach, and launches enemies in the air (enough time for IM to combo something after). plus he’s got invincibility like psy’s aaa. and because of his hit range, if blocked/whiffed, IM can still cover him w/ SBs (or just about anything for that matter). i just see psy’s hit range as limited, so opponents got more time to maneuver around it, and get to IM. cyc AAA-a great defensive and offensive assist for IM.

(edit) off topic: :stuck_out_tongue: but is there anyway to change your forum name??? my couz made it for me, and its gettin pretty damn annoying.


#13

There’s a reason ironman’s not top tier, ec even has a saying for that:lol: :lol: :slight_smile:

Top right corner that shit!

Fight a serious runaway player(ricky,john sentinaaal,RICK MEARS, plenty of fag bastards i could name here)

Now insert 50morecentZ

runaway storm/sent/capcom just shits on that team

Cable Zones ironman really well with sent and capcom assists, you can’t assist

he can.

ironmans rushdown isn’t hitting much nowadays, if he happens to get in, which isn’t often, pushblock his initial attempt, unless he had backing named sent or doom, peaCe. Thats the huge problem, even when he gets in, if you turtle up, he’s not hitting anything anyways. If you have a healthy lead, GGPO.

Sentinel/capcom vs ironman is so damn rough of a match, ESP with drones instead of doom rocks, with the rocks, at least you can really pin him down with rectangle jumps and 2lk’sXXfp+doom assist and cross-ups. Ghetto shit but it really makes a difference to play against sent/cap who isn’t being held in place. As long as sentinel doesn’t abuse flight without the help of capcom for safety, even in close sentinel zones the shit out of ironman, never mind being above him…ground domination and longer range with easier combo’s and more coverage from cap than cyc for ironman, jeez ironman’s nowhere near a match for a real sent/capcom tried and true…

However, i still play the shit out of ironman, just because he kills with one hit, combofiend sets that hit up perfectly via infinite 40hits hyperXXtempestXXproton into guard break, infinite, hsf, launch yada yada, oh yeah, unblockable, rinse one more time repeat.

THE BEST DHC IN THE GAME

As far as ground control, and for punishing any button pressed, no dhc is better, tempestXXpc is filthy, esp into hsf when sent has bars.

Wtf, combofiend has the best 1 hit kill for a whole team in the game:p

My apologies if you just read that:lol:


#14

Is it just me or are ironmans nowadays having a tough time landing an infinite ?


#15

yes…it is tough getting the infinite off due to a slower tri-jump than storm and magneto…but u can find ways…

i play this one person who has a good sentinel, i would say his name, u 'probably heard of him, but i don’t want to due to the fact i don’t want to make him think that i think im dissin on him…but yeah; he has a real good Sent/Cap…but I sometimes still manage to land an infinite on him. also, that is why i think either psylocke or doom needs to be on a IM based team (an IM team that starts IM on point)…at worse cable’s AAA…u need something that you can just setup ur infinite off of almost. you also have to be aware of what you are at, if you jump up and meet somebody air to air…and they are NEAR the corner, try and otg setup. if you land a tri jump you BETTER be able to do the infinite 100% of the time.

but since the infinite is startin to get hard to land, I play combofiend. although mixup loves them in that order…and I might try them out in that order some more…I like playing them Mag/Sent-a/IM…that is just a personal preference though, and something I feel more comfterable with…for one I like my character switch options like that…i like having magneto right behind my sent and vice versa…

but yeah; like mixup said, u could play combofiend and have IM DHC in to kill the last character, then do his jap guardbreak or the j.up+fp, land, launch, sj.up+fp, ad/uf, sj.fp, rh (otg), start infinite with lk…both are DAMN NEAR uneascapable…matter of fact i’ve never seen anybody escape the jap GB, but i heard out west they got some adv. tatic pushblock bullshit where they can get out of it…sometimes


#16

hey this doug-funnie (on my new account) yea u better be able to land a tri-jump into the info 100%, but there are other ways of landing the inf. learn to setup after a throw, off your assists, and in aircombos.

learn the aircombo setups. IM can force opponents to come to u. especially from the air. if you can win the battle in the air,use aircombos that setups his normal inf.

and play smart with assists. try IM/cyc, i feel much more dominant with cyc than psy. I think they’re a great duo. IM is slow, so it’s a lot harder to drop psy where u want, and combo of the assist. cyc covers a great proportion of the screen without your speed, and it setups aircombos. again, learn the aircombo setups. you’ll learn a lot more on how to combo off of anything into an inf.

but IM/psy is still very deadly. try down+psy aaa in flight model, unactivate, and u can start the inf when you land. this can work anywhere on the screen and it’s deadly in air battles.


#17

could u post some aircombo setups…i have a feeling i don’t know what ur talkin about


#18

sure, these will all work without the launcher, but only at the height (or a lil bit above/below) the kick brings them up…very important to keep in mind

(practice by launching them first w/ HK)

  1. sj d+hp, dash df, lk, lk, u+hp, <land> start inf
  2. sj u+hp, dash d, lp, u+hp, inf
  3. sj neutral (or f,b) + hp, dash df, lp, lp, u+hp, inf

(the next are a lot more complicated, require a lot more timing, and u might have to switch attacks depening on your opponent’s weight)
4. sj lp, pause, lk, pause, lk (make sure its mk), pause, u+hp (u should be falling with opponent at this point), long pause, dash d, u+hp, <land>, start inf.
----experiment a lot with this using different attacks/dashes. combo possibilites become endless.

if your having trouble with this let me know. i’ll try my best to help out.

  1. unfly mode to normal inf setup. check my new thread for this (the topic is self-explanatory). i tried to explain the setup and how it works. if u have trouble, ill be glad to help you out. but unfortunately, i dont have vids… i dunno how to make them.

i also suggest learning to setup the inf after assists. IM can call assists while in the air (dive kick, dash puts IM in jump mode).
6. try the IM/psy combo i posted in the above post. there is no easier way to setup the inf in an air combo then that. plus it works anywhere on screen (including the very top,bottom, middle, corner). just call psy after the down+hp the higher you’re up (and vise versa the lower you are).


#19

Against somone with good defense and a storm/sent team ironman will rarely win…


#20

Hey guys,
Right now I have just started playing IM, and I think he is a cool character. Can someone tell me if the team I am playing with is good (mag, storm, IM? I use to play MSP but I got my butt kicked by Team watz all the time. So I decided to play them.

Is there any tactics, combos, or strategy playing with IM ? Should IM be point?

Very sorry for all the dumb questions but I am really interested in learning IM.