In AE, EX Green head is guaranteed to give enough time for SPD?

zangief

#1

Shoryuken newbie here

I main Gief and was wondering if its just my execution input or just the way Gief’s green hand works, but it seems that I whiff a SPD about 50% after an EX green hand. Do I just need to work on my timing or is the EX green hand setup now more like an option select


SPD Glitch?
#2

EXGH on hit is +1 so you cannot grab them during that frame of advantage. As a rule of thumb I start the motion on the last hit of the EXGH and I have never had a problem with this in match.


#3

Yeah I seem to notice that problem also.

But frame data says otherwise:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/zangief-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

EX Greenhand being +1 on hit means SPD, which starts up in 2 frames should work. So if you were frame perfect or not, you should still be able to grab them. Yet this is a bit inconsistent?

Unlike, the Super and Ultra I which starts up in 1 frame, would whiff if performed frame perfect

The inconsistency leads me to believe that either EX Greenhand is greater than +1 on hit or SPD starts up in 1 frame?


#4

You are throw invulnerable for 2F after blockstun/hitstun/wakeup. So you would need to wait 2 frames after EXGH to SPD. You could do immediate normal throw though.


#5

Yo i agree… i think the frame data is off on ex hand on hit.


#6

Can you give the source for this info.

That would explain alot, so on hit: Your +1 then add the extra 2 Frames - Means you have to wait 3 frames before grabbing them. Which would mean frame perfect regular throws would whiff, as they startup in 3 frames. You have to wait 1 frame for normal throws, 2 frames for SPD or 3 frames for Super/Ultra I.


#7

Regular throws have 2F active time so no delay is needed. The second active frame will grab them from a +1 situation.


#8

I think it’s actually 3F of throw invincibility after block, hit, and wakeup (I had gone into training mode when AE dropped and have a little chart somewhere). U1 and SPDs have 2 active frames as well, but shorter startup. Normal throws have 3F startup in general (only exception Gouken’s back throw?) and SPD has 2F startup.


#9

Normal throws have 3 active frames, while 720s and SPDs have 2 active frames. So, you can do a normal throw immediately after EX GH, wait 1 frame for SPD, and 2f for Super/U1. You can also be a frame late on SPDs and 720s and still have them work.

In addition, you can even be another frame late, since nothing starts up fast enough to stuff the grabs, and jumps/invincible moves will beat all the grabs no matter when you do them.

This is assuming the grab-invincible period is actually 2f, not 3f as Uwe said. I don’t think its 3f, because it was, then you would always be able to throw Zangief/Hawk out of their tick-throws.


#10

I just thought of something. What the post hitstun 2 frames of throw invincibility means, is that:

After EXGH, when your +1. You can’t connect U1 until 2 frames later. After 1 frame later when your opponent comes out of frame disadvantage, you still have to wait 1 more frame until you can land U1. But you could activate U1, since it has 2 active frames, whiff 1 active frame and grab them ASAP when they become throw-able again on the very next frame. Now that would mean, they can jump your U1 post Ultra Flash, during that whiff 1 frame, as expected.

Now, what happens if your opponent has a 1 frame grab Ultra like Zangief, T.Hawk, or Hakan. Would that mean, that in that scenario, they can grab you 100% of the time even though they’re at frame disadvantage, if you don’t jump or backdash? So basically, if you turn on your U1, they grab you with their U1? Maybe even on-reaction post Ultra flash?


#11

Sorry man, ^ that is a little confusing. Good question about possible counter ultras thouigh if I am reading it corretly. I have had some strange occurences like inputting Gief’s super and playing Ryu who activated super apparently on same frame or frame before, where after Gief’s Super freeze Ryu’s super activates and hits Gief (which shouldn’t happen with a 0f grab unless possibly 1st active whiffed?)

From the Wiki:
[LIST=1]
[*]Characters cannot be thrown for 2 frames when they are eligible to perform a Reversal. This means meaty throws will whiff, and certain tick grabs will whiff even though you are in range and the opponent has already left blockstun. It also means you will never be able to throw reversal moves that start up in 2 frames or less (Zangief Spinning Pile Driver).
[/LIST]

Elligible to perform reversal includes leaving hitstun, leaving blockstun, on wakeup, hit out of air by a non-KD move

After EXGH Gief is +1, so here is what happens on hit (if this is wrong someone let me know and I will edit)
Frame 1- opponent still in hitstun
Frame 2- opponent out of hitstun in 1st unthrowable frame
Frame 3- opponent in 2nd unthrowable frame
Frame 4- opponent again throwable