In-Depth Matchup Discussion: Abel

dudley

#1

Discuss the Abel match up here.

Quote or point out the good/useful info and I’ll link to it in this first post for easy reference.

HAV’s Insight


Every rose has it's thorn: Dudley Match-up Index
#2

Stupid match up.

Both character have poor wakeup so it’s basically a contest of who can get the first knockdown.


#3

st. HP and f + HP are the go-to pokes but don’t be predictable because he can roll and punish you. Doing forward throw safe jump, OSing throw stops most his wakeup options from the safejump, his backdash is horrible so you can throw if backddash and if he starts COD, roll, or EX TT, throw will beat them out. Personally, when he gets ultra 2 stocked, I dont jump at all ,stay very close to him still and keep pressure on him on wakeup(notice if he has meter as well, EX TT can kill). cr. short on wakeup is versatile going against ultra2 and keeping pressure.

Meaty cr. short on on abel wakeup, abels think they can punish with U2, but you can cancel that meaty cr. short to JU to beat U2. ( don’t know which JU is best to cancel to, I usually use EX). Overhead, st. MK target combo works the same way I think. If you have reactions and are in range when he activates U2, just use your U2. I tried the HK/EX SSB but not successful IMO because if abels change timing of release, the SSB gets caught still. Overall its about momentum and ground control. If your going to jump, just do neutral because abels cr. HP its very good AA on dudley.


#4

Empty jump cancel landing frames into ex ju stuffs u2 everytime…breathless ain’t shit. Using its ultra flash to buffer your own u2 is extremely gratifying!


#5

lol I hate this matchup. I always seem to leave them free when they stop their change of direction because I’m so busy blocking. I backdash from time to time to escape tornado throw. Did I say I hate this matchup?

Seriously, after a couple of endless yesterday, I went to to training and found out cr.lk > st.mk target combo works great on his wakeup. I don’t think you can get EX Tornado Thrown at that time. Also, I hate this matchup…yesterday I was jabbing on wake-up or something, an Abel did his Breathless so cr.lp xx EX Jet Upper. Also don’t jab on wake-up, it’s a free tornado throw for him. I was jabbing because idk what the fuck I was doing.


#6

In my experience, this match up is whoever gets in first wins. The matchup itself is kinda of dumb but you should be able to pressure abel pretty well. Poorly spaced rolls should be punished every time with s.HP/f.HP. c.lk->mk IS GODLY in this matchup. without meter Abel is pretty free on wakeup. With meter ex tornado throw is a bitch, but im pretty sure c.lk stuffs it everytime. Someone correct me on this but im pretty sure ex tornado throw only has upper body invincibility. Backdash is your best friend in this matchup, if you block a medium kick he will dash in and try to tick throw/tornado throw you. Backdash->s.hp is pretty good.

This is a war of the untechable knockdown gentleman. Make sure you get it first and you’ll have an easier time winning the match.

also U2 every time.

In my experience, good abel’s use U1. U2 is just so scrubilicious.


#7

Standing MK stuffs Abel’s Pinwheel Kick (QCB+K).


#8

Where’s HAV? I want him to bless us with some insight since he plays Abel and subs Dudley.


#9

dont block the step kick

DONT DO IT!!!

blocks the step kick

D:


#10

Sup Quotes? Is getting beat by RYYYYYYYYYYYYYYDURRRRRRRRRRRRRR as fun as it looks on stream?


#11

yes. especially when he rolls through my uppercuts then ultras, making me feel especially stupid.
the matchup is fun though.

getting in on abel is harder than it looks, step kick beats almost everything and his c.mk is good enough to stuff you from a distance. in my experience there are 3 ways you can your offense started vs abel

-Knockdown
-L.2 Focus hit or block
-lp MGB hit or block

if he has no meter abel is especially free, he has to get to get away from you and most of the guesses are leaned in your odds anyways. the matchup is kind of hyper at some points or there are points when your doing pretty much nothing.

if you want any reference on this matchup pull up the hundreds of break vids with me vs ryder to see what not to do.


#12

Pretty sure CoD or his standing short will catch your backdash. Close fierce catches jumps. Once Abel gets in it’s hard to get away without meter.

I’m gonna echo Mr. X and wait on HAV. This matchup is pretty lame.


#13

I’ve been doing this matchup for my matchup series on xUpYourGamex’s youtube site, and I really think it’s a brutal 5-5 in that after the first knockdown, whoever knocked down won.

In my experience on first getting in, I would try to use either a lvl.2 focus or the slipping jab, which was stuffing the step kick and s.lk. I actually think that’s a go to move in the match because if you use it right, you can stop his main tools for getting damage at mid range and try to force him into a disadvantageous position.


#14

I didn’t know this thread existed.

Um… here’s what I had to say in the Abel match thread:

http://shoryuken.com/f250/breathless-super-abel-match-theory-thread-232185/#post8721128

Incidentally, I pretty much never lose this fight when I play it from the Dudley side.

Anyway, couple of points.

  • You don’t need to use EX Jet Upper when you’re cancelling a Low Short to stop Breathless. Regular Jet Upper has throw invinc, so I just use Fierce Jet Upper.

  • Throw Abel on his wake-up. Just do it. If you have a SJOS into it, great, but I honestly think it’s more effective to just walk up to Abel and throw him. A safe jump OS into throw can still lose to EX TT. Also, as Abel, if you jump, I get to see what’s happening and react. If you jump too early, I understand that the jump is largely a decoy. If you truly safe jump it, I’ll EX TT you. You will lose. If you jump late, I can check my options. I’ll either block, or I can potentially anti-air Dudley. If you just walk up to me, I have no idea what you’re going to do. You can go high, low, throw, or neutral jump. My best option here is to block low, late tech and try to react to overhead. Umm… this is hard. At this point, I’ll tech a throw attempt, but then you can open me up with delayed Low Shorts, or whatever, so I can’t do that too well anymore.

Now… I can either do that, or I can guess. Most likely guess is EX TT. EX TT loses to throws, and neutral jumps, so… as a thinking Abel player, I don’t want to do it too much anyway. Most Abel’s don’t give a fuck though, and they’ll just do it. Throw those fucks. To combat this, Abel’s will start having to go with another option, and honestly, none of Abel’s other options are very good at all. Halfway smart Abel’s will start to block here, and then you can just rape his wake-up (since these guys aren’t used to having to block). The I-don’t-give-a-fuck Abel’s will start doing normal TT here. Umm… just rape that shit. That loses to anything other than throw/block. Don’t be scared of those idiots.

  • As Dudley, I whore Fwd+FP. It’s good on Abel, and it’s a good way to close space at mid range. Abel can respond by starting to do EX CoD, which is pretty good on Dudley, so don’t go crazy with it.

  • J. RH is good on Abel. The closer you can get to coming down on him at a 90º angle, the harder it is for Abel to AA it consistently. In this match, once you get Abel to block anything, you can fuck him up. So it’s worth it to take risks with jumps and random focuses.

  • The converse is true. Once Abel gets you to block anything, it can get rough.

Yeah. Somebody above said Dudley Low Short beats Abel’s EX TT. This is not true at all. EX TT beats all physical attacks. Dudley Low Short is no exception.

But yeah… I agree with the overall sentiment that this match is both even, and retarded. I hate playing this match, from Abel’s side at least. I find it fun from Dudley’s side, but that’s only because I know Abel, and Abel players, pretty damn well, and it’s fun to fuck with them. Abel/Abel is probably my least favorite fight in the game… Abel/Dudley is probably second. You have to know all the options on both sides, and understand which type of Abel you’re fighting, and understand the flow of options, based on which type of Abel you’re fighting… but Dudley definitely has the tools to fuck Abel up, if you can do all this, and make first contact.

The same is true on Abel’s side, though I think Abel has to make more shitty guesses. He gets a little more pay-off on those guesses, when he guesses right consistently. Also, Breathless is pretty rough on Dudley. If Abel can get Breathless off in any way other than the Please-get-the-fuck-off-me way, he can really fuck Dudley.

Ummm… yeah. If anyone has any questions, just post. I know this match pretty well from either side.

EDIT- There are a couple of recent matches of me playing this fight from both sides. I don’t know if they’re really relevant to anything I’ve said so far, since I haven’t really watched them, but they might be, so here they are.

[media=youtube]V-DmWBLDKRw[/media]
[media=youtube]jwKDIxRpYw4[/media]


#15

I find that i have a harder time against Dudley players that use St. RH as a poke at closer ranges than st. FP.

it’s when the dudley player throws it out and buffers MGB that I begin to hesitate to throw out step kick. Especially when dudley has alot of meter.