Increasing the amount of paid places at Evo


#1

I just wanted to ask if Evo staff is willing to give prizes/money beyond the top 3 finishers at Evolution. With so many talented people entering, even MAKING the top 8 is a huge achievement and should be rewarded somehow. I’m not talking anything drastic, I think 1st place still should get 50% of the pot… but look at poker. They pay out tons of places ( i think WSOP paid out over 200 and Hachem only got 20% or something).

This is a prize table i cooked up for my local tourneys at C3… not that we would hit 100 people, but still…

<10 entrants 66/33
10-20 entrants: 58/28/14
over 20 entrants 53/26/14/7
over 50 entrants 50/25/12.5/6.25/3.125/3.125
Over 100 entrants (pays top 8) 50/24/12/6/3/3/1/1

So using Evo 2k5 numbers as an example…

3S Prizes Evo 2K5 337 entrants

1st 1685$
2nd 808.8$
3rd 404.4$
4th 202.2$
5th/6th 101.1$
7th/8th 33.7$

ST Prizes Evo 2K5 155 Entrants
1st 775$
2nd 372$
3rd 186$
4th 93$
5th/6th 46.5$
7th/8th 15.5$

Marvel 215 Entrants
1st 1075 $
2nd 516$
3rd 258$
4th 129$
5th/6th 64.5$
7th/8th 21.5$

I just think that with SO much talent, more people should get rewarded. It’s much harder to get 8th at evo than it is win some local tourney.

I’m just not a big fan of the prevailing systems… where I see 80/20, 70/20/10, and the 65/25/10. The last one is pretty popular, but I still feel that if a tourney can afford (with entry fees) to pay out more players… it should. I’m not a high tourney placer, and i’m only going to Evo NY, but I’m just throwing out ideas for the whole community to discuss.

Thanks for listening.


#2

If you’re not top 3 your nothing. Damn, for some reason now people are all like “I made top 20/ 10”. Back in the day there was only 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Thanx.

-See Ya!!!


#3

Sure guy, Justin wong in Marvel, Mester in 3S, DSP in St, Combofiend in CvS2, Marneto in GGXX#R… they’re nothing, man. Scrubs… Obviously they might as well not have shown up if they’re gonna get 4th place.

This line of reasoning is asinine. Can you think of any pro event/ tournament (that awards money as prizes) that only awards top 3? Golf doesn’t. Tennis doesn’t. Racing doesn’t. Olympics only give gold, silver, bronze, but that is an amateur tourney that doensn’t give cash prizes. Poker pays out hundreds, depending on the size of the tourney.

Sorry, but your arguement fails. “back in the day” is not today. K. thanx.


#4

Yes, the Cannons made that blog post about how only top 3 is really impressive…

…but if you READ THE COMMENTS, you will see that they fully admit this doesn’t apply to Evo. With most of the US’s best, and elite international players, top 8 is an achievement worth rewarding. Look at 3s alone…the 8th through 4th finishers were RF, MOV, Ricky Ortiz, Kokujin, and Mester. Are those a bunch of nobodies?

I think if fighting games truly want to go pro, they’ll have to start paying a lot more places than just top 3; otherwise, tournaments will only be positive-EV for a few players. Just look at poker tournaments…the accepted standard there is to pay around 10% of the field, because it’s difficult for anybody to make a consistent profit if the number is much less than that. I certainly don’t think fighting game tournaments need to pay that many, as the luck factor isn’t nearly as high, but top 8 would definitely be a great start.

-Josh


#5

I would have loved to take home $93 instead of nothing. I basically ran the OG ST gauntlet, made top 4, got NOTHING, and then went home and got called a fluke because it was on PS1. WHAT A PRODUCTIVE TRIP, YES!

If poker can pay out top 10, why can’t EVO? Justin doesn’t need any more money to line his pockets.


#6

I do agree with paying more people, 1st should always be a decent amount, but i think a lot more people would fight for spots if top 8 meant being in the money.


#7

stupid this is ignorant thread… you play to win period… if you don’t you dont get shit, now practice up.


#8

I agree that having the top 8 players recieve cash prizes would be more beneficial than just the top 3. Some people maybe unsure about entering EVO because their chances of placing the top 3 and earning a prize is slim, but if the top 8 recieved prizes then they may feel more comfortable attending. More participants means more money for the pot so no one is really losing out.


#9

Wrong, only top 3 should get paid so they get a bigger chunk. I don’t give a fuck about anyone below top 3 :stuck_out_tongue: I mean fuck I haven’t taken top 3 at any game at evo but I’m gunning for it. Go big or go home :smiley: and it’s not saying you’re a nobody just you have to be that much better to get paid.

Fighting game tourneys already pay out nothing why make the best get paid less? :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

With 86% of the pot still going to top 3, its not too big of a difference for the first few people.


#11

I don’t understand the top 3 argument. At least make it top 4. Or make it only top 2.

Why? Because 3 means you could have skipped half the players by just advancing on the other side.

In theory, if everyone always beat people they were better than, in a double elimination the top 2 would be the two best players. Three and beyond could get all mixed up.

4th means you made it to the loser’s bracket finals.


#12

Yeah, but you’re from Vegas, your whole life is based on go big or go home so your opinion doesn’t count Mr. RuiN!


#13

I think if you make the payout for top 8 you should increase entry fee also.


#14

I think the two are only minorly related. Increasing the cost of entry only has a minor effect on the expected value of an entrant, as incidental costs become a smaller portion of a player’s total cost as the entry fee goes up.

It really is an issue of being able how many places can you award money of any significance (let’s call that 2-3 times the tournament buy-in) without severely cutting into the prize money of the top finishers. From a logical standpoint, I would be much more interested in playing in a tournament where I had some chance of cashing instead of playing in a tournament where I had no chance, even if the money was bigger and I carried a negative expectation in both tournaments.

Regardless, paying top 3 in a tournament that runs 300+ deep is flat-out insane. That is an insanely top-heavy pay table.

Here is what I would propose for structures:

100-man tournament ($1,000):

1st: 40% ($400)
2nd: 19% ($190)
3rd: 12% ($120)
4th: 9% ($90)
t5th: 6% ($60 * 2)
t7th: 4% ($40 * 2)

In the old format, the splits would have been 700/200/100. So the major adjustment here is a big hit to 1st place to award five smaller prizes.

400-man tournament ($4,000)

1st: 28% ($1120)
2nd: 16% ($640)
3rd: 12% ($480)
4th: 8% ($320)
t5th: 5% ($200 * 2)
t7th: 3% ($120 * 2)
t9th: 1.5% ($60 * 4)
t13th: 1% ($40 * 4)
t17th: 0.75% ($30 * 8)
t25th: 0.5% ($20 * 8)

Old format: 2800/800/400. Same effect as before; mainly cutting into the first place prize to award 29 more places. Some could argue that 17th-32nd are too thin and just award top 16, spreading out what would have gone to 17th-32nd across the remaining players.

Regardless, even paying out top 8 would be a large improvement.

-Dippy


#15

i feel that this is a great idea. not that i believe i will make top 8 in any game but its a start. the future can only get brighter with a new payout system. paying ten percent of the entrants is too much as of now. top 8 is good.


#16

Hmm… thanks for your input guys. I got some respected opinions showing support. Most of the people who support my position gave very strong postions why they feel that way. Most who didn’t pretty much just said “that’s how it’s always been/ only l33t is top 3” I wonder what the tourney directors feel about this?

Until then, here are a snippet of inkblots posts from the Shoryuken blog. These may have to do for conversation until one of them posts.