Instant AG vs Back dash RE: Overlap issues

Classic Fighting Games Tatsunoko VS Capcom
#1

I’m having a little bit of an issue with Advance Guad and back dash having the same input. I like to use what I call an “Instant Advance Guard” which is basically what I call using an AG on the first hit you block. This keeps the game a little more aggressive.

The problem is that the inputs for an AG and a back dash are the same. So if you miss time your AG, you’ll get a back dash. This makes you lose alot of ground, and can lead to getting hit with random supers.

I just think it’d be better if the input for AG was more like in MVC2, that being 2 attacks instead of three and then have back dashes just be the three attacks. That way, if you miss time the AG, you’ll just get a regular block, which you’d probably have done anyways.

That’s just something I was thinking other people may also be annoyed with. I am by no means trying to baby the game or make things noob-ish. I just think that AG is something that should be encouraged, and removing a severe punishment for attempting one would make people more apt to try using it more regularly. Also it would make the game flow more aggressively by actively rewarding a more aggressive tactic when on a defensive.

#2

It’s risk vs. reward. If you think you know when something’s going to hit, you can hit that AG, but if you fuck up, you’ll probably get punished for it. I think it’s a great mechanic. Makes the game more offensive than some alternative option select crap where you can just sit and mash out advance guards safely.

#3

well, technically it is an option select if you hit ABC~7 lol

#4

Pro tip, Don’t AG its not as good as you think lol.

#5

I’m cool with the risk of it, but hate when I AG something that would have been otherwise punishable, but I helped keep them safe lol. Need to break my habbit of always AGing because of that.

#6

Not really, that’s actually worse because you’ll get hit out of jump startup either way.

#7

Would you really say its worse, it seems like it would still be less frames than completing the backdash, if you block the hit after the “option select” you lose frame advantage because of the time it takes to fall but the alternative is just getting hit.

i definatly agree that it is far from an option select free AG or whatever.

#8

didn’t say it was a good one -_-

anyways, if this is happening a lot, it means you’re going autopilot with the anticipation pushblocks. just try to confirm that you’ve blocked stuff more i guess.

#9

Here’s the deal, I’m not talking about creating an option select. I’m talking about separating the inputs.

An above poster said that he prefers the higher risk vs. reward that is already in place. Though he disagrees with me, he actually gets what I’m saying. Everyone else who’s talking about an option select does not really understand what I’m asking here.

I just want the inputs to be separate so that when I do want to use an AG, and I want to time it exactly so that I can quickly regain offense, I don’t want to have to get an unintentional back dash. The timing can be really strict when attempting to quickly AG on the first hit of a string, and I understand that it’s not always the best idea to do so. However, when I do wish to do this, often times lag or an opponents “broken rhythm” will throw it off. In those instances, a back dash can cost you dearly.

If the two techniques had separate inputs, this would be a non issue. You wouldn’t get an accidental back dash when you were trying to quickly turn the tables and create space offensively. You’d get a block, which is what you would have been doing anyways.

#10

yourmother summed it up nicely. If there was no downside, everyone would mash AG all the time. It’s just like, if your opponent drops his combo, you can jab him and start up your own. But if you just mash jab during the blockstring, you’re usually gonna get hurt. AGs are not free.

#11

I like having them the same input. It also allows for baiting AG mid pressure string (insert a pause into your string to bait AG, punish the dash). I think it adds a new dimension to your pressure game, though a small one.

#12

Ok, I can get on that bandwagon. Punishing a dash is nice. Still, I don’t see a downside to having separate inputs for back dash and an AG. It would keep the game very fast and aggressive, because using an AG would open up more possibilities. I see the AG in this game as something like Soul Calibur’s Guard Impact system. I’m waiting for an aggressive 2D game to utilize something like that. Not since the beloved 3rd Strike has such a system existed. If TVC had a system like that, I’d be balls out for it.

I just think AG should be something to attempt, but if you fail at it, the consequences shouldn’t be so bad. The reason for that thinking is to encourage new players to at least try more advanced tactics. If new players can try advanced tactics and be moderately successful with them, it would only encourage them to pursue the game further, thus making the scene grow. Let’s be honest, TVC needs all the scene growing it can get. We’re already small in number, and getting more people into our game and trying new tactics can only help our cause.

I just don’t see a downside to my idea. Although, I do understand and respect the opinions to the contrary.

#13

Ok, I can get on that bandwagon. Punishing a dash is nice. Still, I don’t see a downside to having separate inputs for back dash and an AG. It would keep the game very fast and aggressive, because using an AG would open up more possibilities. I see the AG in this game as something like Soul Calibur’s Guard Impact system. I’m waiting for an aggressive 2D game to utilize something like that. Not since the beloved 3rd Strike has such a system existed. If TVC had a system like that, I’d be balls out for it.

I just think AG should be something to attempt, but if you fail at it, the consequences shouldn’t be so bad. The reason for that thinking is to encourage new players to at least try more advanced tactics. If new players can try advanced tactics and be moderately successful with them, it would only encourage them to pursue the game further, thus making the scene grow. Let’s be honest, TVC needs all the scene growing it can get. We’re already small in number, and getting more people into our game and trying new tactics can only help our cause.

I just don’t see a downside to my idea. Although, I do understand and respect the opinions to the contrary.

#14

Basically I would be fine with it as long as there’s some downside to whiffing an ag. So like, a whiff animation or something to stop people from mashing it, but frankly, a backdash does that pretty handily on it’s own, as long as you’re applying smart pressure.

#15

You see, now this is what I’m talking about! An actually idea that adds to the conversation. Thank you kind sir, you’re a gentleman and a scholar.

I actually like the idea of a punishable wiff animation to the AG, because then the opponent has to take advantage of it and be aggressive. You won’t lose ground, you’ll just stand there looking like a fool until the enemy hits you. And if he doesn’t, you can continue your pressure.

The problem with a back dash is that you lose ground. So after wiffing my AG, I now have to run my butt over to you just to get to the screen position I already had. It’s just too steep a punishment for a bad choice like this. Not only am I open to attack, but now I’ve lost precious ground.

A wiff animation only punishes me with only one of these down sides, being open to attack. I can still maintain my position on screen. This encourages me to be aggressive and to try to gain more ground in spite of my mistake, provided my opponent doesn’t capitalize it. This would only add another mind game to the fight.

Well spoken sir, I applaud your comment.

#16

You see, now this is what I’m talking about! An actually idea that adds to the conversation. Thank you kind sir, you’re a gentleman and a scholar.

I actually like the idea of a punishable wiff animation to the AG, because then the opponent has to take advantage of it and be aggressive. You won’t lose ground, you’ll just stand there looking like a fool until the enemy hits you. And if he doesn’t, you can continue your pressure.

The problem with a back dash is that you lose ground. So after wiffing my AG, I now have to run my butt over to you just to get to the screen position I already had. It’s just too steep a punishment for a bad choice like this. Not only am I open to attack, but now I’ve lost precious ground.

A wiff animation only punishes me with only one of these down sides, being open to attack. I can still maintain my position on screen. This encourages me to be aggressive and to try to gain more ground in spite of my mistake, provided my opponent doesn’t capitalize it. This would only add another mind game to the fight.

Well spoken sir, I applaud your comment.

#17

i think AG is fine as it is.

#18

Personally, I think a whiff is a much bigger punishment than a backdash. At least a backdash will often leave them with less than ideal spacing, a whiff at point blank range pretty much guarantees you’ll eat a BnB or worse.

Continue what pressure? You’re the one being attacked.

#19

You’re going to lose pretty much the same amount of ground either way if the opponent doesn’t derp. Most combos move you across the screen anyway, and like BlueCloud said, at least the backdash presents a chance that they might fudge up their opportunity if they’re a shorter range character. I don’t know about you, but if I see someone chilling in front of me with their thumb somewhere it shouldn’t be, I’m going to set up the biggest combo I can muster with no fear of it whiffing.