Instant DP type moves after a knockdown


#1

Is anybody else having problems hitting a jumping in opponent whilst you are getting up from the floor with non charging characters?

This is something i could pull off with ease in other version of the game but i just cant get an instant dragon punch (DP) or tiger uppercut (TU) when somebody jumps in after a knockdown.

My questions are - have they changed the invincibility on instant dragon punches with Ken, Ryu, Akuma, Sagat as im always getting hit when trying to do one? Also, have they changed the timing on these as my previous timing doesnt work and im getting fed up of losing online when these fail 50% of the time and those i play against must think im completely rubbish at defending when getting up.

Any help would be appreciated as i hate looking like an amateur when online and losing agianst those i should be beating.

Thanks in advance.


#2

Well, yes, they have changed the invulnerability of certain dragon punches…by making most of them completely invulnerable. Well, Ken’s strong DP and all 3 of Akuma’s DPs. Ryu’s is still invincible on the first 4 (correct me if I’m wrong) frames. The only thing they changed about the timing of the DP is they made it more lenient. I assume by “instant dragon punches” you mean reversal dragon punches. The timing for a reversal dragon punch also remains unchanged.


#3

Yes thats it, i meant reversal dragon punches. The timing is more lenient!? Doesnt feel like it to me. Im constantly getting kicked in the head each time meaning im clearly not getting the timing down. Is there a point where the jump kick in is so well timed that its impossible to do the reversal? Otherwise when should the motion be done? The instant you get up? The instant you see the getting up animation? Earlier than that?

Also does Sagats TU have the same invincible/reversal properties?

Is Kens Fierce DP the only one invincible? Iv been using the jab punch dp so maybe thats the problem? Does this rule apply with Ryu too or are all 3 of his invincible like Akuma’s?


#4

its one frame, it’s hard to nail, your execution just needs a little work. keep at it.


#5

No, it’s never impossible to do a reversal dragon punch. Do the input as you see your character start to get up, and piano the punch. That is to say, when you do it, and hit a punch, hit the other two punch buttons directly afterwards. I assume you’re playing on a controller, so with the default control scheme, you’d do towards down down+towards + square, triangle, L1 (or X Y LB). The input looks like this: :dp:+:lp::mp::hp: This gives your reversal 6 chances to come out rather than 2 (look up negative edge reversals and piano inputs, or watch Sirlin’s tutorials on YouTube/CCC2).

Pretty sure Sagat’s dp is also invulnerable for a short amount of time. To find out, go into practice mode (turn the speed to 0 before you do so) and do a dragon punch with Sagat. If his blue hitboxes disappear for a brief moment, yes.

Are you sure you’re not an amateur? It’s okay if you are, we can teach you things.

Edit: Also, it’s not Ken’s fierce DP that’s invincible…it’s his strong. Medium punch. Whatever you want to call it.


#6

edit ^ yes what this guy said ^

Makes me think one of these is going on…

  • If you mean vanilla ST, it could be latency or smoothing from online play, output lag from your television or video setup, or input delay due to a controller adapter.

  • If you mean other iterations of SF2, maybe the timing of ST in particular is throwing you off. No other edition of SF2 runs at the same speed.

  • If you mean other SF games outside of the SF2 series, the timing in SF2 is more strict and less forgiving in general. SFHD makes a number of things easier but, as already mentioned, you need to press your attack button at the exact, proper frame to get a reversal. That frame, the perfect moment, is only 1/60th of a second long so you need to be very precise.

Somewhere in these videos is an explanation of “pianoing,” which can help you a lot; it’s a very simple trick that extends your window of opportunity to 1/10th (6/60ths) of a second. Reversals will still be very difficult to execute, but it certainly helps consistency be feasible, and makes them a more realistic option.


#7

omg thnxs.


#8

Yes thanks all for your help. That explains a few things and i have a few things to try now. I was aware of piano keying but didnt really feel the need to do it before mainly playing against friends on a controller.

I have a stick now. Hori EX2. Still getting used to it. Not sure how exactly to hold the stick to get DP movements out consistently from both sides of the screen.

Maybe i am an amateur but im very keen to learn as i spent many days on the SF games when younger but only on the SNES. This has prob caused my bad habits to become ingrained which is difficult to shift. Iv learned a lot online this past week. I have a good feel for the game and i know i will be a very good player if i could execute half of the moves that i intend to come out.

Ill hit practice mode i think. Set the CPU to fight and just tough it out for a while until i get the timing down.

PS - sorry for the confusion on the Fierce, Strong thing. I only know them as MP and HP etc. That seems easier to me to remember. This must have changed somewhere in the past 10 years. Thanks for your help.


#9

Haha, it’s alright. Most people outside of the hardcore ST community, I’ve noticed, refer to them as LP, MP, and HP. I don’t know why. If you want to use the jab, strong, fierce terminology without confusing them, go to the options in HDR and set your controls, it refers to them as jab, strong, fierce, short, forward, and roundhouse (LP, MP, HP, LK, MK, and HK, respectively).


#10

The attack moves have always been called jab, strong, etc., for Street Fighter. It is the standard nomenclature since, at least, WW. One can check ST or SFA, available at CPS-2 Shock, for example. Only at the SF3 manual one can find “punch light,” “punch medium,” etc., but still you see the attacks named jab, strong, etc., at the drill hole template section of it. Crossover games, however, do not have the SF notation. The light-medium-heavy notation is used at the manuals.

It may be interesting to note that the SF notation is very descriptive for Ryu’s attacks.


#11

Ah, makes sense.


#12

in the uk our instruction man ual used light punch etc probably a pal thing


#13

Hehe yup admitting it is the first step…


#14

Does anybody know the reasoning behind making the wake-up reversal window so incredibly small???

Wake-up defense is really important and, to me, it doesn’t make sense for the devs to make this move so difficult. This game is supposed to be for everyone (casual through expert), but I don’t know any casual or even intermediate players with the skill to time a move perfectly to 1/60th of a second. I doubt even experts can time this right every time.

When I watch higher level play online, I see a lot of blocking on wake-up, even though the attacker is obviously jumping in or trying to rush-down the waking up character. Are they simply blocking to avoid the chance they will miss the window?? I try wake-up DPs on instinct when I see the opponent jumping at me, and I miss it a lot and eat a ton of damage. My waking-up character should not be at such a disadvantage.

J


#15

I’m no expert - but imho the strict timing is b/c ST is all about cross-overs. If you could easily punish them, it would negate a fundamental aspect of the game. ST is not 3S. Third Strike is hella easy to wake-up DP. But its a different game with a different set of core strategies.


#16

Yep, as did the other fighting games of the time, and also any tips etc in magazines


#17

I have the same exact issue. ESPECIALLY with tick throws or when someone knocks you out of the air and lands before you and gets ready to attack. I want to DP, I say DP, I do the motion and try to time it perfectly and…it comes out 50% of the time.

I think the input speed is a lot different and a LOT more sensitive than I’m used to as well (I’m a 3S player). My pianoing results in hitting three punches at once according to the game when I pick Akuma (even though I clearly released the buttons before pressing the other and am essentially using MVC chain timing speed). I’ll do moves quickly on reaction, press the button at the end, hear the button being pressed, and my character does nothing and is hit with something that I saw coming a mile away. Supers come out as dragon punches. Etc.

It drives me crazy because I know I did the right thing at the right time, but the game is so “picky” that I suffer for it just as much as I am rewarded. And it’s a problem because one missed reversal or flubbed combo will cost me an entire match.

I deal with it, but I do get highly frustrated since every other game I play (KOF/VF/3S) isn’t so uselessly unforgiving.


#18

i’ve felt the same.

hey i’m still relatively new to posting. much less asking for help at a forum like site. my first time posting here at all. i’ll post a question soon enough but i figured this isn’t the right spot. maybe it is i dunno. trying to do everything right the first time. while looking to see if anyone else asked the same question i saw this thread. i consider myself amateaur or slightly above just because i have the desire. but anyway i too have a problem performing the reversal dragon punch. i have yet to try piano style. but i find it interesting the original poster mentioned he always trys it with light punch. which is the same for me. i wonder if the timing is harder. i would try but out of habit i prefer to use the dp that doesn’t leave me wide open on hd remix. and i have yet to watch the videos mentioned above as well as turn the hitboxes on to see if that might be why. but even then i’d have to have someone trip me right? well anyway since his question was answered all i should have to do is the same. just wanted to say i have the same experience.


#19

If it’s a meaty jump-in, it’s gonna be hard to dp. The motion is more lenient but the reversal window is the same.


#20

Same problem right here. I can’t tell you how many of the matches that I lost hinged on me needing to do reversals at critical moments but could not for some odd reason. There are other times when my opponents do jump-ins that are wide open for a reversal but I fail to do it and end up eating their jump-kick anyway.

At least the thread has helped me establish that you CAN reversal jumping meatys as long as it’s timed right. I guess I just need to keep practicing until I can get the message consistently. I take it a reversal isn’t a “reversal” unless the game says so. The only problem is that timings on local matches and online matches can vary quite drastically for me depending on lag.